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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

Salfarc

Paramount
What? "City level" is a by word for a certain level of destructive capacity. Riveria nukes a floor of the dungeon larger than the city of Orario, hence she's "city level". People with similar levels of power can shatter Danmachi Adamantite, hence it's durability is below that.
Materials of the things it destroys matter.

Destroying something with the durability of steel vs destroying something 10x the durability of steel are different.

You are assuming the baseline are pretty much the same, from the visual effect.

If the buildings in Danmachi is 10x stronger than the buildings in fate, even if visually a character in both sides are destroying buildings, it doesn't mean they have the same minimum power being displayed.

You have the assume the buildings have roughly the same durability to know they have the same minimum power.

Nuking the floor of a dungeon, the dungeon could've been 100x stronger than normal things in Fate, you don't know that.

In the end it is assumption that the dungeon is not so far above things in fate. You have to assume that things in Danmachi are not by default stronger than any other series even at the baseline.

This may sounds like I am hyping Danmachi and downplaying Fate, but no. I am saying there is no actual known comparison. The other side could've argue "human from one verse may be stronger by default to human of another verse" for example, in the end we assume they have similar power, the human without Falna in Danmachi and regular human in other series.

It's all assumption.
Fate's Adamant constructs have taken hits from things that bore mile wide holes through the planet.

There is literally zero basis for a comparison between the two. They are different materials with different names from different series with different origins and different properties.

This is not a "same unless otherwise noted" scenario like the force of gravity or strength of iron
This is how it goes.

1: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assuming this is the same: It raise up a lot of strength in Danmachi, because it means everything else is harder and stronger in Danmachi,

2: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assume they are different: That means Danmachi is not miles stronger than any other series.

Simple as that.

But eh, the discussion is kinda unnecessary I too want to adopt no.2 I just don't want the other side to complain we are dismissing them.
 

Masterblack06

Cosmically Evolved Entity
Moderator
Materials of the things it destroys matter.

Destroying something with the durability of steel vs destroying something 10x the durability of steel are different.

You are assuming the baseline are pretty much the same, from the visual effect.

If the buildings in Danmachi is 10x stronger than the buildings in fate, even if visually a character in both sides are destroying buildings, it doesn't mean they have the same minimum power being displayed.

You have the assume the buildings have roughly the same durability to know they have the same minimum power.

Nuking the floor of a dungeon, the dungeon could've been 100x stronger than normal things in Fate, you don't know that.

In the end it is assumption that the dungeon is not so far above things in fate. You have to assume that things in Danmachi are not by default stronger than any other series even at the baseline.

This may sounds like I am hyping Danmachi and downplaying Fate, but no. I am saying there is no actual known comparison. The other side could've argue "human from one verse may be stronger by default to human of another verse" for example, in the end we assume they have similar power, the human without Falna in Danmachi and regular human in other series.

It's all assumption.

This is how it goes.

1: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assuming this is the same: It raise up a lot of strength in Danmachi, because it means everything else is harder and stronger in Danmachi,

2: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assume they are different: That means Danmachi is not miles stronger than any other series.

Simple as that.

But eh, the discussion is kinda unnecessary I too want to adopt no.2 I just don't want the other side to complain we are dismissing them.
No clue what all this jibber jabber is about but just go by the feats. forget all this "asssumption" shit.
 
Materials of the things it destroys matter.

Destroying something with the durability of steel vs destroying something 10x the durability of steel are different.

You are assuming the baseline are pretty much the same, from the visual effect.

If the buildings in Danmachi is 10x stronger than the buildings in fate, even if visually a character in both sides are destroying buildings, it doesn't mean they have the same minimum power being displayed.

You have the assume the buildings have roughly the same durability to know they have the same minimum power.

Nuking the floor of a dungeon, the dungeon could've been 100x stronger than normal things in Fate, you don't know that.

In the end it is assumption that the dungeon is not so far above things in fate. You have to assume that things in Danmachi are not by default stronger than any other series even at the baseline.

This may sounds like I am hyping Danmachi and downplaying Fate, but no. I am saying there is no actual known comparison. The other side could've argue "human from one verse may be stronger by default to human of another verse" for example, in the end we assume they have similar power, the human without Falna in Danmachi and regular human in other series.

It's all assumption.

Salf, you are arguing as if you made a point but you legit didn't...
You are going by assumptions based on names and nothing else and not by how much those metals have been able to block whatsoever.
Do you have proof that any dungeon has materials x100 times more durable than anything in Fate? If you don't, then there's no point to this conversation past further wasting time.

This is how it goes.

1: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assuming this is the same: It raise up a lot of strength in Danmachi, because it means everything else is harder and stronger in Danmachi,

2: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assume they are different: That means Danmachi is not miles stronger than any other series.

Simple as that.

But eh, the discussion is kinda unnecessary I too want to adopt no.2 I just don't want the other side to complain we are dismissing them.

I'm not sure what is this, we go by literally one rule and one rule only not just as VS. debaters but as readers:

What does the author tells us and what we are shown(or told if it's a book). Are we told Adamantite is the strongest metal in Danmachi? Yes, No? And what we are shown that Adamantite can take? That's it, no more no less.

By going through all of these assumptions, you are doing no different than people who believe that Las Noches is a literal universe because it has a "Sun and Sky" in it.
 

Crimson Dragoon

Exceptional
Low hanging fruit but

One of the funny parts about all these F-22s vs TIEs scenarios is that, if it’s old EU, the TIE can just activate its jamming signals to fuck with the Raptor’s sensors and deny it beyond visual range combat. The TIE then proceeds to eviscerate the Raptor.

That and one craft being able to zoom off into space and come back down again while the other can’t also kind of makes things lopsided
 

Salfarc

Paramount
You are going by assumptions based on names and nothing else and not by how much those metals have been able to block whatsoever.
Do you have proof that any dungeon has materials x100 times more durable than anything in Fate? If you don't, then there's no point to this conversation past further wasting time.
I think you guys just miss the point.

We are either assuming they are the same or we assume they are different. Feats exist and we assume the baseline of durability related to other series. We assume that the city in Orario is not 100x above Fuyuki for example, that the dungeon floor doesn't require the same energy level that can destroy a planet in Fate to destroy.

I too want to assume they are not that strong because it sounds ridiculous. I just don't want people to think we are downplaying their verse.
 

CrossTheHorizon

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Materials of the things it destroys matter.

Destroying something with the durability of steel vs destroying something 10x the durability of steel are different.

You are assuming the baseline are pretty much the same, from the visual effect.

No I'm saying Riveria is city level because she used a fire spell that nuked an entire floor the size of a city.

People of her level of power can destroy Adamantite.

ergo, Adamantite can be destroyed by city level power

Adamant in Fate can only be destroyed by planet level attacks or higher.

ergo, Adamant is planet level and Adamantite is city level

If the buildings in Danmachi is 10x stronger than the buildings in fate, even if visually a character in both sides are destroying buildings, it doesn't mean they have the same minimum power being displayed.

Why the hell would this be a thing. Both series have baseline humans who interact with wood and stone like its wood and stone and thus we can assume those materials are similar to real world counterparts

Adamant and Adamantite do not have a real world counterpart and have completely different properties. There is no reason to assume they are similar in any way.

You have the assume the buildings have roughly the same durability to know they have the same minimum power.

Normal non-magical materials are demonstrated in both series to be indistinguishable from irl materials

Nuking the floor of a dungeon, the dungeon could've been 100x stronger than normal things in Fate, you don't know that.

Nothing indicates this, it is never suggested in any way, and there is no basis for believing it would be true.

This is roughly equivalent to assuming there is unmentioned background radiation in Danmachi that means they're all secretly nuclear mutants.

In the end it is assumption that the dungeon is not so far above things in fate. You have to assume that things in Danmachi are not by default stronger than any other series even at the baseline.

No, we use demonstrated feats of power involving comparable irl materials like wood and stone to establish a baseline. And then extrapolate from there the amount of power needed to damage to made up ones

This is not a difficult concept.

This may sounds like I am hyping Danmachi and downplaying Fate, but no. I am saying there is no actual known comparison. The other side could've argue "human from one verse may be stronger by default to human of another verse" for example, in the end we assume they have similar power, the human without Falna in Danmachi and regular human in other series.

It's all assumption.

This is how it goes.

No, we say they're equivalent to irl humans because they demonstrate that they are. There are plenty of series where "human" can easily mean a hypersonic town buster. Danmachi and Fate dont do that, baseline humans are shown to be equivalent to irl humans without supernatural gifts.

1: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assuming this is the same: It raise up a lot of strength in Danmachi, because it means everything else is harder and stronger in Danmachi,

2: Is Adamantite in Danmachi the same or Different? Assume they are different: That means Danmachi is not miles stronger than any other series.

Simple as that.

Adamantite doesn't exist in Fate. There is a material called Adamant that is used by Greeks to create Divine Constructs, but it both looks and acts completely different from Adamantite in Danmachi.

These series are completely unrelated. There is no basis in any form to assume two differently named fictional metals would share durability or properties.

But eh, the discussion is kinda unnecessary I too want to adopt no.2 I just don't want the other side to complain we are dismissing them.

No one is doing this.

Not even VSB would make this level of jump.

Again the two metals do not even share an actual name.
 

Masterblack06

Cosmically Evolved Entity
Moderator
I think you guys just miss the point.

We are either assuming they are the same or we assume they are different. Feats exist and we assume the baseline of durability related to other series. We assume that the city in Orario is not 100x above Fuyuki for example, that the dungeon floor doesn't require the same energy level that can destroy a planet in Fate to destroy.

I too want to assume they are not that strong because it sounds ridiculous. I just don't want people to think we are downplaying their verse.
Stop caring about what other niggas think about fictional series

As long as your being honest with your discussion and analysis it does not matter in the slightest if someone thinks your downplaying their favorite verse
 
I think you guys just miss the point.

We are either assuming they are the same or we assume they are different. Feats exist and we assume the baseline of durability related to other series. We assume that the city in Orario is not 100x above Fuyuki for example, that the dungeon floor doesn't require the same energy level that can destroy a planet in Fate to destroy.

I too want to assume they are not that strong because it sounds ridiculous. I just don't want people to think we are downplaying their verse.

I already said this before in my rant to you earlier:

STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT SPACEBATTLE MEMBERS THINK!!!

I literally gave you an example among many, many others over how they tend to think and act, why the fuck are you trying to cater to them by literally going "Adamantite is the same across both series" as if that's somehow "being fair". There's no fairness in VS. battles, especially in extremely obvious stomp matches.
If you have to do stuff like that to make idiots think you are bringing parity and to "not make it hurt as much", then all you are doing is sandbagging a franchise and both wanking and downplaying it for others to do the same. I did that once and I found it pointless long after and I didn't give a shit if they laughed at me or whatever.

They laugh while they are seen as laughingstocks, who is really the loser in that situation?
 

Salfarc

Paramount
No I'm saying Riveria is city level because she used a fire spell that nuked an entire floor the size of a city.

People of her level of power can destroy Adamantite.

ergo, Adamantite can be destroyed by city level power

Adamant in Fate can only be destroyed by planet level attacks or higher.

ergo, Adamant is planet level and Adamantite is city level
Again this is assuming the dungeon's floor durability.

If you need the same energy to destroy adamantite in fate to destroy the dungeon floor in Danmachi, that is beyond city level.

This is my point, we either assume it is or it is not.
Why the hell would this be a thing. Both series have baseline humans who interact with wood and stone like its wood and stone and thus we can assume those materials are similar to real world counterparts

Adamant and Adamantite do not have a real world counterpart and have completely different properties. There is no reason to assume they are similar in any way.
Because there is no 100% confirmation the humans are exactly the same.

Even this is assuming the human are roughly the same in both verses.

The point is again, how this is all assumption.
Normal non-magical materials are demonstrated in both series to be indistinguishable from irl materials



Nothing indicates this, it is never suggested in any way, and there is no basis for believing it would be true.

This is roughly equivalent to assuming there is unmentioned background radiation in Danmachi that means they're all secretly nuclear mutants.
That is all visual effect, you can in theory make a sword made of wood so similar to a real steel sword, and make a wooden shield so similar to real steel shield and have them interract and they look like real steel sword and real steel shield. But obviously they are not the same

Are you under the impression that assumption is inherently wrong or something that you are so against it? When your word literally assume the humans are the same?
No, we use demonstrated feats of power involving comparable irl materials like wood and stone to establish a baseline. And then extrapolate from there the amount of power needed to damage to made up ones

This is not a difficult concept.
It is not difficult concept, no one say it is. I literally repeating myself to say that you are assuming they are comparable. Nothing wrong with that, as there is nothing directly indicate they are not comparable.

I've been saying this since like 3 comments ago.
No, we say they're equivalent to irl humans because they demonstrate that they are. There are plenty of series where "human" can easily mean a hypersonic town buster. Danmachi and Fate dont do that, baseline humans are shown to be equivalent to irl humans without supernatural gifts.
Human in danmachi barely do anything. Also you are saying that because you see how the human interract with the things inside that verse. There is nothing 100% confirm that if normal human in fate is suddenly thrown to danmachi verse, they'd be as strong as danmachi verse human. And vice versa, there is nothing 100% confirm that if normal human in danmachi is suddenly thrown to danmachi verse, they'd be as strong as Nasuverse human.

We literally need to assume because there is no official crossover between the two. Hell, if there is, it may not be canon or contradict canon and so we still need to assume.
Adamantite doesn't exist in Fate. There is a material called Adamant that is used by Greeks to create Divine Constructs, but it both looks and acts completely different from Adamantite in Danmachi.

These series are completely unrelated. There is no basis in any form to assume two differently named fictional metals would share durability or properties.
Yes that is Adamantite...Let's not pretend stupidity that they are both mean to represent the mythical material Adamantite.
No one is doing this.

Not even VSB would make this level of jump.

Again the two metals do not even share an actual name.
Well I do hope no one will accuse me of downplaying if I call danmachi's adamantite is weaker than Fate's. Again I do want to do it. Alright
STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT SPACEBATTLE MEMBERS THINK!!!
Stop caring about what other niggas think about fictional series
Yeah fair enough actually.
 

Masterblack06

Cosmically Evolved Entity
Moderator

Dr Strange and Dr Fate
At the height of their power
1650763749747.png
 
Even a low tier Herald with downplay and low ends , is still a planet level character with ftl speeds.
More than enough to solo the HST by just busting the planetand the trinity can´t do anything to prevent it.
I'm actually seeing some people wank Naruto to star-level or even universal level because of one character name Momoshiki creating a dimension or something.

And Bleach to universal level because of the Three Realms and the Soul King.

And One Piece to planet level.

On Reddit.
 
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