Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

[Xhominid The Apex]

isn´t this a rule in Nasuverse that smaller things are the most powerfull ?

No? There is literally no rule about that ever... Most of the TYPEs are fucking gigantic(ORT explicitly fucks with it's size and be as huge as it wants but most of the TYPEs stated are huge as fuck and only Crimson Moon Brunsterd is even implied to be "small" and even that is in question). Even in the Servantverse side, Space Ishtar(or Ishtar Ashtart) is literally just the avatar we see and she's otherwise the size of a Galaxy).

Even Albion's true body is shown to be actually pretty freaking big when we see it in the swamp relative to how big Melusine Albion is.

 

[Tablos]

How rare , i am sure that i readed something like that or maybe just i found a theory psycho

 

[Regular-Nothing Eric]

Some of the only genuinely accurate comments in that video:

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

How rare , i am sure that i readed something like that or maybe just i found a theory psycho

The latter. The Nasuverse is one of the rare franchises that actually goes with "Bigger = Stronger, Faster, etc. etc.".
Kingprotea getting big enough can basically destroy planets simply by colliding with them and even at her "base height" is practically unstoppable to all but the strongest Servants(Passionlip and Kazuradrop needed hax to defeat Kingprotea straight up and BB explicitly keeps her sealed up precisely because she has no easy out to defeat her).

Kiara Sessyoin absorbing Kingprotea's ID_Es amongst the others is why she's clarified as a "Solar System-Tier Being" and even beings like Ivan's Mammoth, Gugulanna and otherwise are shown to be insanely powerful not just because of their age but just how huge they are.
It's actually rare in the Nasuverse to get the opposite and those are usually TYPEs, Divine Spirits or Beasts who upend it in different fashions.

@Salfarc I decided to look through Siegfried's Materials wondering if SB members are correct that Melusine can just go through Armor of Fafnir... but it seems like they are wrong, it just that Armor of Fafnir won't provide any extra defensive bonuses if it's faced with Anti-Dragon Noble Phantasms:

Blood Armor of the Evil Dragon [Noble Phantasm]

Armor of Fafnir. The continuously active Noble Phantasm of Saber of Black, Siegfried. Negates all attacks of B rank and below.
When receiving regular A rank attacks, the armor’s defensive rank of B will be subtracted from the attack’s offensive rank of A… in other words, it will be reduced to effectively an E rank attack, but in the case of an attack by a Noble Phantasm, the armor’s defensive value will rise to the rank of B+. However, this additional defensive value will not be included in the attack calculations should the enemy use a Noble Phantasm or skill that has the properties of an Anti-Dragon special attack. Furthermore, the B+ defensive value is only applicable when he is attacked while defenceless, and the armor’s defense will be further reduced should he take defensive action with “Balmung: Phantasmal Greatsword”. When he goes all out in a defensive battle, Siegfried is effectively a moving fortress.
However, since the effects of this armor do not apply to the single spot on Siegfried’s back that was covered by the leaf of a lime tree, it becomes extremely difficult for him to be healed with healing magecraft if he is wounded there even once.

So in simple terms, they are acting as if Siegfried will be absolutely defenseless if you just use an Anti-Dragon Noble Phantasm but that's not completely true either. This is especially a problem as Melusine hasn't shown to use Arodnight Blasts like Lancelot theoretically could which would cause more problems.

 

[King of 🌽]

.

 

[Triple Accel 555]

but i don´t see it above Longinus , a weapon that its whole purpose is to counter her whole existence and still she tanked that

That longinus is one of weapon Morgan used during her time as Savior. She sealed that weapon because it's dangerous.
Fragment 7

Mash	Now that you mention it, I'm surprised you don't have the Staff of Selection despite being this land's savior, Aesc.
Mash	Did you lose it somewhere?
Aesc	I haven't heard of this Staff of Selection, but no, I don't have the Spear of Selection any longer.
Aesc	The Implements of Selection came to Britain along with me when I first washed up here from my homeland...
Aesc	But I'm afraid my feelings corrupted them, making them...unsuitable.
Aesc	So I had them sealed away inside this cathedral.
Totorot	Man, what a waste!
Totorot	The Garden and Spear used to be Aesc's trump cards!
Totorot	The Garden was a bounded field that could trap nightmares, and the Spear was a weapon that could admonish any faerie it touched!
Totorot	But then, during the last calamity, the faeries behaved so badly that Aesc got super mad at them...
Totorot	And that caused the nature of the Spear to turn away from what it should be!
Mash	...If you don't mind my asking, could you tell me what makes these weapons so, um, unsuitable?
Aesc	...Nnn. How can I put this...? The Spear itself is still as strong as ever, but...
Aesc	...when it turned, its restraints were removed, and its capability to recharge kind of...went haywire.
Aesc	Basically, the Spear of Selection no longer uses its wielder's magical energy to power its attacks. Now, it does so by feeding on the life force

Section 27 mention of this too

Percival : This spear, the Spear of Selection.
Percival: However, Aesc had placed a seal on the spear that prevented any sinner from using it.
Percival: In practice, that meant only humans could even touch the spear, let alone wield it.
Da Vinci : So that's why they used human children. Even if they're not as strong as faeries, they could use the Spear of Selection...
Da Vinci : And that was the bar that had to be met to call oneself the Child of Prophecy.
Percival : That's right. Then, when I was ten years old, I succeeded at drawing out the Spear of Selection's power.
Percival : I think...it chose me. That it wanted me to use it to kill wicked faeries.
Percival : I'm sure I heard a voice saying something like that in my head.
Percival : ...That was also when the Mirror clan disappeared from Britain.
Percival : The day the Spear of Selection chose me was also the day she went to the Lake District on our lord's orders.
Altria : ...Huh? Hang on. That doesn't make sense.
Altria : The Mirror clan disappeared six years ago, right? But you're
Percival : The Spear of Selection uses its wielder's life-force to generate its true power.
Percival : ...I'm sorry, Altria. The truth is, I'm sixteen years old, too.
Percival : I was ten when the Spear of Selection chose me, and I aged ten years as a result.
Percival: That's why I have the body of a twenty-six year old.
Da Vinci: ...But British humans only live thirty years on average. That's why you didn't age anymore the second time you used it; you couldn't age more.
Da Vinci : Does that mean the only reason
you're still alive now is
Percival : Yes. I must have been born stronger than other humans.

 

[Tablos]

.

The whole thing in Shinjuku will only destroy that Singularity and Ritsuka can even leave that place because the actual planet is not in danger , Jesus people still don´t get how hard to destroy Nasuverse Earth really is.

 

[Paxton]

Wouldn't other planets have their own protections/various Textures on top of the planet anyway, like Gaia does?

So the distinction between "an entire planet" and "the entire planet" shouldn't really matter, as it's effectively the same amount of power needed either way

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Wouldn't other planets have their own protections/various Textures on top of the planet anyway, like Gaia does?

So the distinction between "an entire planet" and "the entire planet" shouldn't really matter, as it's effectively the same amount of power needed either way

Again no? The problem people have is that the defenses for Nasuverse Earth is only relative to Nasuverse Earth ALONE. If it even remotely touched other planets, then how did Chaldea have ANY CHANCE against ORT? Because yeah, Earth actually gave ORT the order to do what it ultimately did and does meaning he should be under not just the Planet's protection but also the Oort Cloud's.

This is also the case if you want to bring up how Type-Moon ultimately died against Zelretch should also be impossible. And let's not even bring in Velber/Sefar or Notes where there is a literal war between the TYPEs and the remaining "Humans" when Earth wants them dead and the TYPEs obliged.

So no, there is a HUGE difference and people love to ignore that there is just the singular term for Planet... not Planets or anything of that nature:



It really shows people refuse to read because it's hilarious how clear Da Vinci is and yet people still somehow miss it so blatantly...

 

[Regular-Nothing Eric]

@Xhominid The Apex @Paxton any thoughts on the video and the comments I posted on Rambo vs Predator?

 

[Paxton]

@Xhominid The Apex @Paxton any thoughts on the video and the comments I posted on Rambo vs Predator?

My knowledge on either franchise is incredibly barebones, so uh, no comment.

 

[Salfarc]

isn´t this a rule in Nasuverse that smaller things are the most powerfull ? like Arcueid energy is planck sized hipermasive star that dwarfs human history or ORT is the TYPE with best feats and scale and its the smallest one we know . Or Draco being the smallest Beast is also the one with the highest energy.

A good argument for Melsusine is that she came from the oldest and strongest Dragon (and oldest being on planet Earth)

Not really...I mean look at Herc and he is very powerful. It just that smaller humanoid looks cooler. It isn't that the smaller is the more powerful or anything.

Otherwise you'd say Paul and Kingprotea are stronger when they are smaller, or that Hans is stronger than Asterios but no.

Also ORT is fucking huge, it's real body is small but it always fight in a huge body.

So in simple terms, they are acting as if Siegfried will be absolutely defenseless if you just use an Anti-Dragon Noble Phantasm but that's not completely true either. This is especially a problem as Melusine hasn't shown to use Arodnight Blasts like Lancelot theoretically could which would cause more problems.

Tbh their argument isn't that she can go through because of anti-dragon from Arondight. They are saying this 3:

1) Melusine outstat Siegfried so hard that Siegfried advantage vs dragon doesn't matter
2) Siegfried's advantage vs dragon is nothing to Melusine because Melusine is pureblood dragon, because they use what real Lancelot said about pureblood dragon as proof, and Fafnir takes the power of a dragon, so does Siegfried, therefore they argue that Melusine is stronger. And yes, that screenshoot I posted argues that this logic would imply Lancelot himself lose against the dragon he beat but he didn't. Then Devoidruby use that "smaller" argument...
3) And finally Siegfried's armor is nothing compared to Melusine's strength, and she can just hit his back

THEY ARE SAYING MELUSINE IS SO FAST AND SO STRONG SHE CAN JUST NO SELL THE ARMOR OF FAFNIR REGARDLESS OF ANTI-DRAGON ADVANTAGE OR NO FROM BOTH SIDES.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Not really...I mean look at Herc and he is very powerful. It just that smaller humanoid looks cooler. It isn't that the smaller is the more powerful or anything.

Otherwise you'd say Paul and Kingprotea are stronger when they are smaller, or that Hans is stronger than Asterios but no.

Also ORT is fucking huge, it's real body is small but it always fight in a huge body.

Actually Heracles' strength comes in because he's the son of Zeus and then got deified after death to become the God of Strength in the Pantheon... yes, this is real too in Greek Myth. It's why his Divinity is so high compared to other beings.

But otherwise, Heracles tends to be the exception that makes the rule compared to other beings(As he tends to outstat people who should be far stronger than him because "Willpower" and "HE'S FUCKING HERACLES!" when it's time to come in clutch). Then you have beings like Asterios and Gorgon whose strength operates "Outside of Human Limits" which means they can do some hilarious bullshit strength feats due to it(Like Gorgon tripping Tiamat in her 2nd form)

And ORT's "real body" is actually just it's Sleep Mode size and if you mean the Saucer, it's genuinely huge as well according to the scene when Kingprotea tries to hold it in place, it's almost as big as she is and she is taller than the Mountains in that area.

Tbh their argument isn't that she can go through because of anti-dragon from Arondight. They are saying this 3:

1) Melusine outstat Siegfried so hard that Siegfried advantage vs dragon doesn't matter
2) Siegfried's advantage vs dragon is nothing to Melusine because Melusine is pureblood dragon, because they use what real Lancelot said about pureblood dragon as proof, and Fafnir takes the power of a dragon, so does Siegfried, therefore they argue that Melusine is stronger. And yes, that screenshoot I posted argues that this logic would imply Lancelot himself lose against the dragon he beat but he didn't. Then Devoidruby use that "smaller" argument...
3) And finally Siegfried's armor is nothing compared to Melusine's strength, and she can just hit his back

THEY ARE SAYING MELUSINE IS SO FAST AND SO STRONG SHE CAN JUST NO SELL THE ARMOR OF FAFNIR.

Yeah, they are just inventing shit wholesale...
Melusine does not outstat Siegfried, like always, they misunderstand why and how both Alter Ego Muramasa and Cu Caster are strong and think just having Divine Spirits implanted into you makes you strong(I thought Traum would have destroyed that notion as Moriarty only gained hax, not power) and how she ultimately lost the "stalemate" due to a single Shadow Servant.
Secondly, her speed makes no goddamned sense either since SB loves having her be just Mach 2... which Siegfried is faster than simply by gauging his fight with Karna.
And most importantly... you can't outspeed Armor of Fafnir. You either hit it's weakpoint or you brute force onto him and that's it.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Iirc, the "small and heavy" thing is from a comment Nasu made at some point about Arcuied. I have no idea how it's meant to actually translate but his statement was ranking "existences" as "large and light, small and light, large and heavy, small and heavy" from weakest to strongest.

I don't believe this is ever brought up anywhere else or referenced inside any of the actual stories, so I wouldn't place all that much stock in it. I think the context was just him referring to Arcuieds black hole thing anyway.

 

[Salfarc]

Yeah, they are just inventing shit wholesale...
Melusine does not outstat Siegfried, like always, they misunderstand why and how both Alter Ego Muramasa and Cu Caster are strong and think just having Divine Spirits implanted into you makes you strong(I thought Traum would have destroyed that notion as Moriarty only gained hax, not power) and how she ultimately lost the "stalemate" due to a single Shadow Servant.
Secondly, her speed makes no goddamned sense either since SB loves having her be just Mach 2... which Siegfried is faster than simply by gauging his fight with Karna.
And most importantly... you can't outspeed Armor of Fafnir. You either hit it's weakpoint or you brute force onto him and that's it.

Honestly the part where they think Siegfried's advantage vs dragon is nothing to Melusine because Fafnir is not pure dragon and Melusine is, felt like the worse amongst all 3, and the worst is the way Devoidruby argue to defend it.

Smaller=stronger wtf?

They also think Melusine's feat of hurting Koyan is enough feat to say she can bruteforce AOF

Iirc, the "small and heavy" thing is from a comment Nasu made at some point about Arcuied. I have no idea how it's meant to actually translate but his statement was ranking "existences" as "large and light, small and light, large and heavy, small and heavy" from weakest to strongest.

I don't believe this is ever brought up anywhere else or referenced inside any of the actual stories, so I wouldn't place all that much stock in it. I think the context was just him referring to Arcuieds black hole thing anyway.

So it doesn't actually mean smaller=stronger. Just taken out of context.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Honestly the part where they think Siegfried's advantage vs dragon is nothing to Melusine because Fafnir is not pure dragon and Melusine is, felt like the worse amongst all 3, and the worst is the way Devoidruby argue to defend it.

I don't see how Melusine being a "pure Dragon" means anything because that's not what being a pure Dragon means in Nasuverse lore. All Albion is being the "last pure Dragon" is just that and nothing more, it has nothing to do with power or anything of that sort.
It's even dumber considering Fafnir is explicitly stronger than most Dragons and only few rival or surpass it(Like the Dragon in Gilgamesh's Interlude).

They also think Melusine's feat of hurting Koyan is enough feat to say she can bruteforce AOF

Bro, Old Man Li was able to hurt Koyanskaya as well as some drilling utensils in the Prison in LB3...
Ashwatthaman was able to hurt Koyanskaya once Douman gave him the seals so that Koyanskaya couldn't go higher than she could. Even Chaldea was able to hurt Koyanskaya at her full power in Tunguska, they just couldn't kill her.

Melusine being able to destroy one Tail temporarily is not the win they think it is...

 

[Triple Accel 555]

Melusine being able to destroy one Tail temporarily is not the win they think it is...

It’s much more than that because Koyanskaya is so annoyed by Melusine that she splits into light and darkness

Here

The injuries sustained in Fairy Britain will never be forgotten.
Because one could have become a Beast if not for the injuries,
And it’s because of that, she is now divided into Light and Darkness

 

[Regrettable]

here's the small and heavy explanation from Tsuki R.

(18:19)
so it's not like they're talking completely out of their ass but I probably wouldn't use it as a hard rule for the entire series .

 

[Salfarc]

It's taken out of context then since they are just saying Melusine is smaller dragon = stronger. Especially since other big characters like Herc, doesn't matter where he get the power from, he is big, and he is strong. And Paul and Kingprotea...And types.

 

[Papa Nier]

Dude implying that a bowie knife is superior to a wrist blade...

The same wrist blades strong enough to slash, thrust, and penetrate thick hides of Xenomorphs while being resistant to their acid blood?

And Predators not having human "machine guns" somehow makes them weaker and their arsenal inferior to WWII to Cold War era American guns? When they have plasmacaster that can spam blasts akin to a machine gun?

And that Rambo can take on entire Predator armies when Predators in the comics if I'm not mistaken has taken down the most dangerous special forces and combatants on Earth.

Bruh is reaching.

The Wrist Blades are harder than diamonds.

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Predator even has a Power Punch Glove that can make a hole through solid concrete.

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They can casually break concrete and stone without the Power Punch Glove.

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They can rip 2 inches of steel.

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They can lift up large metal gates.

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They can pull metal doors off their hinges.

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They can toss around metal surgery tables.

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Elder Predators casually tangle with buffalos.

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They can wrestle with lions.

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They can slice people apart with their claws.

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Scar was capable of fighting off an Alien Queen.

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They can tear apart Synths with their weapons who can crush Facehuggers with their hands.

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They are stronger than Drake who can swat back Plasma Caster shots with a Combistick.

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They can trade blows with an Engineer, Elden and Magnus.

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Plasma Grenades can destroy tanks and wreck parts of a surrounding town.

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They can blow up a futuristic helicopter and a modern day helicopter with Plasma Caster.

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They can reduce people to char with Plasma Caster.

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They can blows up a spaceship with laser cannons.

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They can blow up entire spaceship with their Plasma Caster.

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Someone on imgur calced it at 6.37 - 72.32 tons of TNT.

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Plasma Casters similar to the one the Predator uses can breach a spaceship hull.

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