DBZ/GT Toeiland power

[ChaosTheory123]

The movie guide states he trained some time after Buu’s death and eventually created this technique. All forms of Buu are trash compared to Dragon Fist (Hirudegarn one-shotted both Ultimate Gohan and SSJ3 Gotenks effortlessly, that’s puts him well beyond Buutenks territory and he’s still fodder to DF)

Trained is relative given even into GT Vegito was a relevant measuring stick for Toei IIRC

Not really feeling this one at all given this snarl.

Like I said, I’m ok with putting it above the (very, very) suppressed versions of Gogeta and Vegetto that we saw. I don’t think the technique is stronger than their full power

And what fraction would you even be discussing? What scaling would you even bring to bear?

In Buu Saga manga version during the time when Goku and Vegeta fight Kid Buu Old Kai said Kaioshin Realm will not get easily get destroyed.

Japanese version

After their fight against Kid Buu Old Kai comment they nearly destroyed Kaioshin Realm.

Japanese version.

Is there a different wording the raws use to talk about the planet vs the realm? Elder Kai, with post hoc support from Super’s narrator, can at least be argued not to be entirely full of shit.

Goku says that Kid Buu would take the universe in a "Poof", herms, the translator of the scans in the kanzenshuu, confirmed that the translation is correct.

Here herms statement about translation itself.

Goku’s an idiot, even if the translation is accurate. I’m not about to take his word on scale to be meaningful before his experiences in Super.

 

[Gordo]

And what fraction would you even be discussing? What scaling would you even bring to bear?

Whatever suppressed level of power he used to humiliate Buuhan

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Whatever suppressed level of power he used to humiliate Buuhan

No, given that's the context he's compared to SSJ4 IIRC

 

[Gordo]

No, given that's the context he's compared to SSJ4 IIRC

Why would they compare him to a suppressed state? This is all it states anyways

People like to argue Super Baby Vegeta 1 (who’s nowhere close to SSJ4 Goku) is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. So if you really wanna rationalize the guidebook statement then it’s referring to a hypothetical FP Vegetto we’ve never seen

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Why would they compare him to a suppressed state? This is all it states anyways

Why would I assume he's sandbagging, not to mention that again he's being directly compared to that moment in time

People like to argue Super Baby Vegeta 1 (who’s nowhere close to SSJ4 Goku) is stronger than SSJ Vegetto. So if you really wanna rationalize the guidebook statement then it’s referring to a hypothetical FP Vegetto we’ve never seen

What links Baby to Vegito?

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

What links Baby to Vegito?

Had this typed up years ago, and it’s time to copypaste it again

First off, Baby has access to the memories of whatever host he successfully takes over

Spoiler

Should be obvious, but you never know with people

Next is Goku remembering being Vegetto which should, again, be obvious

Spoiler

With those out of the way, I can post this:

Spoiler

Baby has access to Vegeta's memories, which should include his experiences as Vegetto since Goku remembered them, and Goku also agreeing with Baby's statement of possessing the greatest Saiyan power. That form is also far from Baby's strongest, since he transforms twice after that, his final form being a Golden Oozaru, which should still retain the ten-times multiplier. Super Saiyan 4 Goku obviously beat Baby.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Dragon Ball Feats - Majin Buu Collection

As we know from the "Super Exciting Guide?" Goku was doing this in over 100 Gs. Training with 2-ton weights attached to his arms and feet while sky dancing! The stress on his body exceeds 100 Gs, but the results are astonishing! Supporting...

onelastforum.com

^There, Dragon Ball, more or less covered to completion.

 

[Triple Accel 555]

Dragon Ball Feats - Majin Buu Collection

As we know from the "Super Exciting Guide?" Goku was doing this in over 100 Gs. Training with 2-ton weights attached to his arms and feet while sky dancing! The stress on his body exceeds 100 Gs, but the results are astonishing! Supporting...

onelastforum.com

^There, Dragon Ball, more or less covered to completion.

So just how strong and fast these manga dbz version ? Is it Galaxy level with MFTL speed ?

 

[ChaosTheory123]

So just how strong and fast these manga dbz version ? Is it Galaxy level with MFTL speed ?

@ChaosTheory123

“Absolutely unbelievable! For his power to reach all the way to this sacred realm…”

Here’s the thing, Kibito doesn’t say “ki” but literally “power” (written in Katakana here to emphasize I guess).

During Goku’s transformation sequence we see Tien and Chaotzu and they also mention Goku’s “power” (same term used) in regards to what is causing the Earth to shake violently.

We know that Gohan can also sense Goku’s Ki while in SSJ3 all the way from Earth, but in that instance he specifically refers to “his ki” instead of “power”.

This would mean that the “force of SSJ3 Goku’s tremendous power” which was causing the Earth to shake, must have also travelled all across the universe so that it was felt in the Kaioshin Realm as well, even though we do not see it shake on panel.


I can’t find any raw material talking about the Kaioshin Realm, but on a Japanese DB wikia it is reiterated that it is “about 10% of the macrocosm (Living World & Other World together). We know that Heaven (which is located in the Other World) is a “universe sized planet”, which would make the macrocosm twice the size of a standard universe.

Actually, why not something easy to low ball?

Like, they clearly noticed the vibration it caused moving across their forms.

So, like, we have any idea of what a cell phone vibrates with, that could function as a serviceable enough low end (I mean, its something you definitely notice, but would be hard to tell is going on without narration)

Across a spherical surface area with a radius of 2.0416 * 10^26 meters to 2.8884 * 10^26 meters you'd be looking at 5.235 * 10^53 m^2 to 1.048 * 10^54 m^2. You'd just need the cross-sectional surface area of a smart phone or some shit to divide that by then multiply that by whatever... I guess they'd measure the vibration in watts (joules/second) or something?

Gonna guess it's some decent fraction of a single joule per second at any rate and the result would be something like small galaxy level around probably 10^55 or 10^56 joules

For the Goku's power reaching the Kaioshin Realm enough to be felt as a possible model?

Any of you know shit about cell phones? I know fuck all to work with, but the idea makes sense as a low end in my sleep addled head anyway

@Crimson Dragoon @Blade @Darth Nihilus @Aurelian as the resident "old fucks that have been here even longer than me" any opinion on that interpretation

Speed? Guess you can discuss the speed of the Spirit Bomb related to how fast Goku can channel it given he's effectively drawing it in to use as a nuke the same way he'd be doing it internally with something like the kamehameha.

 

[Darth Nihilus]

For his power (whatever the fuck you wanna call it) to be felt all the way outside of Earth and light years way from space

That's fucking impressive

Well above planetary if you ask me when gods can feel your energy outside of normal space

Then again SSJ3 is the most underused and overrated form

It was literally there just for appearances and to keep the series going

 

[Darth Nihilus]

You literally just took Raditz's hair and put it on Goku's head

Genius movie Toriyama

G E N I U S

 

[ChaosTheory123]

For his power (whatever the fuck you wanna call it) to be felt all the way outside of Earth and light years way from space

That's fucking impressive

Well above planetary if you ask me when gods can feel your energy outside of normal space

Then again SSJ3 is the most underused and overrated form

It was literally there just for appearances and to keep the series going

I mean, like I said, assuming I’m even in the ballpark on the kind of vibration they felt being akin to the power of a cell phone’s being even some significant fraction of a single watt (joules/second) you’d be looking at enough power to overcome the GBE of a small galaxy because that’s from the edge of a spherical surface area that’s a substantial fraction of the size of a universe’s

 

[Delirium Trigger]

Dragon Ball Feats - Majin Buu Collection

As we know from the "Super Exciting Guide?" Goku was doing this in over 100 Gs. Training with 2-ton weights attached to his arms and feet while sky dancing! The stress on his body exceeds 100 Gs, but the results are astonishing! Supporting...

onelastforum.com

^There, Dragon Ball, more or less covered to completion.

If there was anything to question, it'd be how, if possible, to factor in Gotenks' claims that he flew around the globe a "few dozen times" into the total distance gathered from the ki trails, or is that a non-factor there?

 

[Triple Accel 555]

Just search about Toeiland in VSB and find out the debate regarding the canonicity of the movie version in the DBGT universe.

Dragon Ball GT: Revision concerning the canonicity of Fusion Reborn

Hello everyone. Before giving your agreements or disagreements concerning this matter, I strongly suggest that you read the discussion I had with Null that occured in this thread since I doubt I can concise all the points made in opposition to Fusion Reborn's canonicity and all my...

vsbattles.com

 

[ChaosTheory123]

If there was anything to question, it'd be how, if possible, to factor in Gotenks' claims that he flew around the globe a "few dozen times" into the total distance gathered from the ki trails, or is that a non-factor there?

No on two counts. The first being its a Viz loose translation of what was originally just something like more vague like "many" or "several" and second because the snapshot in time I get a time frame from is all I can use to get a distance for.

Also

Dragon Ball Feats - Majin Buu Collection

As we know from the "Super Exciting Guide?" Goku was doing this in over 100 Gs. Training with 2-ton weights attached to his arms and feet while sky dancing! The stress on his body exceeds 100 Gs, but the results are astonishing! Supporting...

onelastforum.com

Did add the model for Goku shaking the Kaioshin Realm, or at least his power being powerful enough by the time it reaches them its akin to like a cellphone motor buzzing or something across their bodies in how it feels shrugs

Yay stupidly large surface area ratios I guess

 

[Gordo]

Galaxy level SSJ3 is canon

Comprehensive Energy Scale

Outskirts Battledome Wiki, the biggest source for cross-fiction battles on the web.

www.outskirtsbattledomewiki.com

 

[Triple Accel 555]

Just how fast is Manga DBZ in MFTL speed? Is it in the millions, billions, or trillions of MFTL speed?

 

[Gordo]

Quadrillions

 

[Triple Accel 555]

Quadrillions

 

[Ral]

Dragon Ball Feats - Freeza Collection

This is the sole scalable aquatic sea life observed on Namek, at least in the manga. It will be used to find a depth for the waters near the islands. Beyond that, I've got nothing to work with, so fuck it. Krillin = 135 pixels Fish = 521 pixels...

onelastforum.com

Well, that was awful to format~

EDIT - no shit it was, it just about hit the 50,000 character limit

Yeah, the XF formatter is wack, outdated af lol

If you want, I can always increase the max character limit to 100k. I've also enabled the "Series" feature that comes with this blog addon, so give it a go when you have the chance!

View series: https://onelastforum.com/ubs/series/
Create a series: https://onelastforum.com/ubs/series/create-series

I've set the max limit for series creation to 20, for now, but I believe you would benefit greatly from grouping your calcs into series, allowing for more robust collections.