Death Battle Discussion

[Claudio Swiss]

Damn, they actually went with metafictional and Dimension Tiering in order to quantify just who had the greater upper limits between two characters that can warp reality on an infinite Multiversal scale



Congrats to Simon for being the first non-Marvel cape to defeat a DC character in Death Battle

thoughts on the fight

 

[Astaro]

Besides Simon winning, I love how mainly the final fight between TTGL and Anti-Spiral was used as the basis of the fight, from Kyle making constructs to match the size of TTGL and than Super TTGL, the multiverse collapsing Giga Drill clash, and finally Simon and Kyle punching it out on foot just like Simon did with Anti Spiral in the movie

Goes to show anything else would have made this fight nowhere near as epic

 

[Claudio Swiss]

 

[Astaro]

thoughts on the fight

Awesome.

I know some were disappointed that Simon jumped straight to TTGL but I just thought that was fine since it gave TTGL, Super, and finally Simon all on his own the necessary time to each be properly animated.

Kinda like how the most recent Goku vs Superman fight just focused on Goku’s most primary forms: Super Saiyan, Blue, and Mastered Ultra Instinct and none of the many forms in between those

 

[alexander082006]

Damn, they actually went with metafictional and Dimension Tiering in order to quantify just who had the greater upper limits between two characters that can warp reality on an infinite Multiversal scale



Congrats to Simon for being the first non-Marvel cape to defeat a DC character in Death Battle

also Simon is currently the fastest fighter (and that was just with SGGL)

 

[Warlordgab]

I was hoping they'd do Maka v Ruby next

Though after this one I'm not sure I trust them with it

Why? This was a legitimately close MU, and they admitted the LE would've given Kyle the edge over Simon, even if their reasoning about it is kinda flawed

Ruby Vs. Maka is something far more straightforward. If they didn't mess up Shigaraki Vs. Machito or Master Chief Vs. Doomslayer, two straightforward battles, why would they mess up Ruby Vs. Maka?

Is there an argument for Ruby suddenly becoming thousands of times stronger in a blink of an eye? Or is there an argument for Maka not getting the stats accepted by the OBD? Even the vs wiki got Maka on a level Ruby would never be able to surpass

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Why? This was a legitimately close MU, and they admitted the LE would've given Kyle the edge over Simon, even if their reasoning about it is kinda flawed

It's really not. Accepting the more exaggerated forms of scaling for Simon would still only get him to maybe the level of the Godsphere (and that's an overly generous stretch imo)

Using their logic doesn't even get him that far since the "12.3 dimensions" is ONE UNIVERSE and thus infinitely far below the first of the Godsphere's 26 dimensions. Simon would need to replicate the TTGL -> STTGL jump 25 times to get to full Godsphere scaling by their logic.

And then there's the Monitor Sphere.

And Bleedspace.

And then the Source Wall.

And then the Source.

They scaled Green Lantern Kyle above STTGL and then went "well he'll just grow"

Also saying Kyle cant control the LE is wrong because he can and does gain control over it, thats how he divides it.

Also also it wasnt killing him, he was killing him and in the spin-off he wasnt dying he was starting to merge to the Source

Ruby Vs. Maka is something far more straightforward. If they didn't mess up Shigaraki Vs. Machito or Master Chief Vs. Doomslayer, two straightforward battles, why would they mess up Ruby Vs. Maka?

Because I don't think they went at this as a fair evaluation of two characters, they went at it as a problem to solve for Simon. And I have no reason to believe they won't do it for Ruby too

 

[alexander082006]

It's really not. Accepting the more exaggerated forms of scaling for Simon would still only get him to maybe the level of the Godsphere (and that's an overly generous stretch imo)

i don't think is a stretch, actually calling it a stretch is weird.
they said he has several infinities of growth, and he already made a infinite jump on the multiverse labyrinth, he can totally make that jump with a even bigger growth.
so it is not out of the question that he can do that.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

 

[xenos5]

Why? This was a legitimately close MU, and they admitted the LE would've given Kyle the edge over Simon, even if their reasoning about it is kinda flawed

Ruby Vs. Maka is something far more straightforward. If they didn't mess up Shigaraki Vs. Machito or Master Chief Vs. Doomslayer, two straightforward battles, why would they mess up Ruby Vs. Maka?

Is there an argument for Ruby suddenly becoming thousands of times stronger in a blink of an eye? Or is there an argument for Maka not getting the stats accepted by the OBD? Even the vs wiki got Maka on a level Ruby would never be able to surpass

Yeah this really isn’t comparable to Omnidock IMO. It much more comes down to interpretation whereas Omnidock revolved around one feat being massively inflated by a bad calc (Sun Disk).

 

[alexander082006]

Yeah this really isn’t comparable to Omnidock IMO. It much more comes down to interpretation whereas Omnidock revolved around one feat being massively inflated by a bad calc (Sun Disk).

yeah the comparison that the guy is making seems laughable.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Yeah this really isn’t comparable to Omnidock IMO. It much more comes down to interpretation whereas Omnidock revolved around one feat being massively inflated by a bad calc (Sun Disk).

also like Ruby has no avenues to win while maka has fire force scaling lol at max wank so...

 

[Warlordgab]

It's really not. Accepting the more exaggerated forms of scaling for Simon would still only get him to maybe the level of the Godsphere (and that's an overly generous stretch imo)

Using their logic doesn't even get him that far since the "12.3 dimensions" is ONE UNIVERSE and thus infinitely far below the first of the Godsphere's 26 dimensions. Simon would need to replicate the TTGL -> STTGL jump 25 times to get to full Godsphere scaling by their logic.

And then there's the Monitor Sphere.

And Bleedspace.

And then the Source Wall.

And then the Source.

They scaled Green Lantern Kyle above STTGL and then went "well he'll just grow"

Ok, now I see your point

Still, it's the first time I read about the Godshpere's 26 dimensions... Could you please give me some scans about them? I'd like to use them in Discord if I ever need to

Because I don't think they went at this as a fair evaluation of two characters, they went at it as a problem to solve for Simon. And I have no reason to believe they won't do it for Ruby too

I think the issue was a matter of interpretation rather than something made in bad faith

Besides, not so long ago we had the CD Drama 20 dimensions combined with Simon's constant power growth, plus the personality and style of both characters, as arguments for Simon's win, and nobody described it as bad faith either

So, the issue may not be something entirely inherent to Death Battle, but something inherent to the hobby itself

However, I wouldn't worry about Ruby Vs. Maka, given that "all roads lead to Rome," at least in this particular case

 

[Claudio Swiss]

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

i don't think is a stretch, actually calling it a stretch is weird.
they said he has several infinities of growth, and he already made a infinite jump on the multiverse labyrinth, he can totally make that jump with a even bigger growth.
so it is not out of the question that he can do that.

Except he didnt make that jump by himself. He had to absorb every other version of Simon in existence (including the writer one btw) just to get to TTGL

Who was then overpowered by the Anti-Spiral.

Simon couldn't "will" himself out of IBBS, Lordgenome had to die in order to empower Simon again so he could then match the Anti-Spiral

 

[alexander082006]

Except he didnt make that jump by himself. He had to absorb every other version of Simon in existence (including the writer one btw) just to get to TTGL

Who was then overpowered by the Anti-Spiral.

Simon couldn't "will" himself out of IBBS, Lordgenome had to die in order to empower Simon again so he could then match the Anti-Spiral

apparently merging all the multiverse, by yourself, is somehow not counting has power jump?we had this problem weeks again man

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Ok, now I see your point

Still, it's the first time I read about the Godshpere's 26 dimensions... Could you please give me some scans about them? I'd like to use them in Discord if I ever need to

Sure, I'll go looking for them

Though obligatory "dimensional scaling is BS" mention here, since I was just using it to point out the flaw in their logic

I think the issue was a matter of interpretation rather than something made in bad faith

I'd believe that if the conclusion they reached didnt require breaking their own logic.

Besides, not so long ago we had the CD Drama 20 dimensions combined with Simon's constant power growth, plus the personality and style of both characters, as arguments for Simon's win, and nobody described it as bad faith either

I don't believe the 20D thing was ever taken seriously here

So, the issue may not be something entirely inherent to Death Battle, but something inherent to the hobby itself

However, I wouldn't worry about Ruby Vs. Maka, given that "all roads lead to Rome," at least in this particular case

Like I said, my issue is that they wrote this as a problem for Simon to overcome instead of an honest assessment of both characters.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

apparently merging all the multiverse, by yourself, is somehow not counting has power jump?we had this problem weeks again man

Absorbing every other version of himself was what generated the power jump. Unless you're suggesting he was instantly at TTGL level after talking to Kamina and ate the multiverse for....idk, style points?

Even if you wanna use that bizzare version of events, the result is still TTGL.....which still lost to the Anti-Spiral. Lordgenome still had to sacrifice himself to boost Simon again.

He cant go past that on his own.

 

[alexander082006]

Absorbing every other version of himself was what generated the power jump. Unless you're suggesting he was instantly at TTGL level after talking to Kamina and ate the multiverse for....idk, style points?

Even if you wanna use that bizzare version of events, the result is still TTGL.....which still lost to the Anti-Spiral. Lordgenome still had to sacrifice himself to boost Simon again.

He cant go past that on his own.

Call me stupid if you want, but I'm pretty sure you need to be multiversal to be able to absorb a multiverse and integrate it into yourself.
Otherwise, how the hell do you absorb a multiverse?

which is funny because they gave him the ability to absorb the espectrum to turn into STTGL (yeah they did that).

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Call me stupid if you want, but I'm pretty sure you need to be multiversal to be able to absorb a multiverse and integrate it into yourself.
Otherwise, how the hell do you absorb a multiverse?

By being connected to every other version of yourself by an actual multiversal entity (the Anti-Spiral) and then taking in their Spiral Energy.

And again, the end result is TTGL, who still loses to the Anti-Spiral and has to be saved through the death of Lordgenome.

which is funny because they gave him the ability to absorb the espectrum to turn into STTGL (yeah they did that).

Which should have logically translated to Kyle being able to absorb Spiral Energy since they equated it to willpower, but thats another issue