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OBD Convo #46: No Matter What!

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Adamant soul

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I don't understand this at all...
What do people mean that there is no stakes if no one dies? That's not how stakes work and you can make stakes work in different ways. Saitama nor Mob ever truly gets hurt when they fight, not even against their most powerful foes(Mob at worst had his arm messed up against the True CLAW leader but even that is basically gone before the next arc) yet the stakes was a hell of alot more than them getting hurt.

It really is a childish fashion to believe the only way to have stakes is for the characters to be hurt and killed like:
  • Having loved ones be killed or hurt
  • Having the city you protect be destroyed
  • Having someone take something precious from you(Doesn't even need to be a person, an inanimate device is enough)
Etc, etc.

Like Kamen Rider Build had the main Cast only truly drop off at the end of the series and most of the stakes wasn't even the characters dying but everyone else and/or the villains getting closer to their goals.
I think people put too much on the characters getting hurt or dying = stakes which explains why storylines are such shit these days.
It's doubly confusing because even in the OG seasons, the only characters who ever died were Digimon and they came back to life by the nature of how Digimon work, which is true of basically every Digimon season except Tamers. The only true human deaths (that weren't in flashback) were both villains in Oikawa and Kurata.

This didn't stop ANY of those seasons from having stakes.

The argument that makes more sense is Ghost Game largely being a MOTW format show until right near the end but that's just a subjective thing at that point. This isn't Young Hunters, a season which sold itself on being a crossover and then wasted most of its run-time on filler before actually getting to what was advertised.

Ghost Game is its own thing where the premise is largely based on the scary shit that can happen when Digimon stumble into our world, weather through misunderstandings or because the Digimon is genuinely evil. Frankly that is absolutely fine for the series to be mostly that if that's what they're going for, as long as the characters (including the Digimon) are likable and/or interesting which they are, and as long as the scenarios are suitably varied (which is the impression I've gotten).
 

I love when people shit on Snyder for "not understanding Batman" but then try and downplay the times when other writers and movies had Batman also kill people either directly(Batman Returns) or indirectly(The original Batman, Batman Begins) and people then have the excuses flying...

And the thing was... Snyder wasn't even saying what they was bitching about :jordangif


“Batman can’t kill is canon. And I’m like, ‘okay, the first thing I wanna do when you say that is I wanna see what happens’. And they go, ‘well don’t put him in a situation where he has to kill someone’,” Snyder explained to Rogan.

“You’re protecting your god in a weird way, right? You’re making your god irrelevant if he can’t be in that situation. He has to now deal with that. If he does do that what does that mean? What does it tell you, does he stand up to it? Does he survive that as a god? As your god, can Batman survive that?”

Like it's literally just the same shit writers do with Batman all the time and most of the time, it becomes a contradictive mess(Batman has insane willpower to the point he can use a Green/Yellow Lantern Ring... but he's also THIS CLOSE to snapping and killing people like a mad man at the same time...).


It's not even that it's the fact he didn't do it wrong, it's the fact that believing "Batman cannot kill is the entire point of his character" when the man has killed in the past and killed in certain movies(directly and indirectly) to be absurd. And no, trying to cover it by acting as if they are good because "They are better movies" just makes it even dumber.
I'm not even saying that Snyder's take on Batman is good but holy fucking shit do people need to take the hatred out of their mouths because the hate for him is basically reaching beyond childish levels.
 

Adamant soul

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
The fact that ANYBODY tried to leave out Pikachu when discussing recognizable anime characters is insane. :kobeha

And no the "but Pokemon's a game so that's kinda cheating" thing is just nonsense. It wasn't the games that made Pikachu the face of the franchise, or quite possibly THE most recognizable anime character there is. :maybe

Goku is pretty much his only real competition for that position, it's almost certainly between the two of them.
 

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
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The fact that ANYBODY tried to leave out Pikachu when discussing recognizable anime characters is insane. :kobeha

And no the "but Pokemon's a game so that's kinda cheating" thing is just nonsense. It wasn't the games that made Pikachu the face of the franchise, or quite possibly THE most recognizable anime character there is. :maybe

Goku is pretty much his only real competition for that position, it's almost certainly between the two of them.

Pikachu is so loved and so well known people literally tend to forget Raichu, his actual evolution, exists :heston

It got so damn bad with GameFreak doing everything they can to keep Pikachu relevant while Raichu got fucking nothing, they finally relented... and gave Raichu an Alolan Evolution form that ultimately doesn't benefit Raichu anywhere else but Sun and Moon:jordangif

Meanwhile Pikachu then gets a Gigamax transformation and Raichu still gets fucking nothing:risigif

As a Raichu enjoyer, man fuck Pikachu, fuck him forever:tiredofthis
 

Adamant soul

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Pikachu is so loved and so well known people literally tend to forget Raichu, his actual evolution, exists :heston

It got so damn bad with GameFreak doing everything they can to keep Pikachu relevant while Raichu got fucking nothing, they finally relented... and gave Raichu an Alolan Evolution form that ultimately doesn't benefit Raichu anywhere else but Sun and Moon:jordangif

Meanwhile Pikachu then gets a Gigamax transformation and Raichu still gets fucking nothing:risigif

As a Raichu enjoyer, man fuck Pikachu, fuck him forever:tiredofthis
Poor Raichu, got fucked over as badly as Zeromaru/Veedramon line did in Digimon. :heston

V-Tamers actually came BEFORE the anime and there Greymon was just a jobber, but nah the anime comes and Agumon gets top billing and suddenly he is in everything they can cram him into.

Then V-Mon comes around (designed to literally be a cuter, smaller version of Veedramon) and suddenly HIS line is the original PURE version and the Veedramon line is just a sub-species, despite the fact that it existed first. :breh

Ulforce still gets respect but that's only because he's a Royal Knight, meanwhile V-Mon gets not only a Royal Knight but also their fucking founder for an evolution. :kobeha

Feels bad for Raichu and Veedramon fans, it really does.
 

Vespa Crabro

Stellaron Hunter
V.I.P. Member

e4kr3aljaaaa.jpg


@Adamant soul @Masterblack06 @DestinyDestroyer @Proto234

And of course Konami noticed Albaz’s toxic use of summoning Gimmick Puppet Nightmare to the opponents field as a special summon lock and made this support Nightmare Turbo lockdown

IV gets all the love. When’s my boy III going to get some good new Chronomaly support?
He did get it with bishbaalkin OTK :risitas
 
Poor Raichu, got fucked over as badly as Zeromaru/Veedramon line did in Digimon. :heston

V-Tamers actually came BEFORE the anime and there Greymon was just a jobber, but nah the anime comes and Agumon gets top billing and suddenly he is in everything they can cram him into.

Then V-Mon comes around (designed to literally be a cuter, smaller version of Veedramon) and suddenly HIS line is the original PURE version and the Veedramon line is just a sub-species, despite the fact that it existed first. :breh

Ulforce still gets respect but that's only because he's a Royal Knight, meanwhile V-Mon gets not only a Royal Knight but also their fucking founder for an evolution. :kobeha

Feels bad for Raichu and Veedramon fans, it really does.

The truly ironic shit about Raichu? For all of the game's pushing of Pikachu over Raichu, Raichu is ultimately STILL SUPERIOR to Pikachu where it counts :heston

Pikachu's stats are shit even with Evolite, even with the Light Ball, it turns into a massive Glass Cannon, Gigamax Pikachu is shit as well and the various version of Pikachu all have too low stats to matter in actual trainer battles.

The only Pikachu in any Pokemon game that is superior to Raichu... is Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu who is fundamentally broken right from the gate:maury

Otherwise, it's literally better to just let your Pikachu turn into a Raichu due to having a better stat spread, actually having bulk and atleast gaining some actual moves worth a damn to use that bulk on(Free Quick Attack and Agility the instant you evolve? Thunder Punch as an option now? Can actually use more options that doesn't turn your Pokemon into a one turn chump? Can even be used decently in Gen IX to cover your bases with the Dynamaxing/Terestal buffs?).
It's just funny that Raichu gets so little love otherwise despite the fact that Pikachu is no Chansey and definitely no Primeape(Who fully benefits from Evolite due to Ghostape's existence... but why use Primeape when you have fucking GHOSTAPE?!:risigif)
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Not really? It's kinda weird as most franchises surprisingly doesn't touch on the occult as much as you think. Even the most well known, Aliester Crowley, is not even remotely used despite how infamous he is and it's not like his family stops people from using him in any way(FGO explicitly has that issue with 2 Servants that are coming to NA this year precisely due to their families and estate(George Milines and J.Edgar Hoover) making saying who they are impossible).
So I guess for most authors, they just get glazed over.
I know, hence why I raised the question if there’s anything else that uses an obscure figure as Anna Sprengel.

Can name plenty of Crowleys (Toaru, Supernatural, Yugioh in several different flavors, SMT (along with Master Therion) and probably a bunch of other stuff that don’t necessarily mention him but probably some shit he wrote
 
@Papa Nier @Adamant soul
Hilariously for as much shit as Gamefreak gives to Raichu, none of it matches how much they hate Farfetch'd

Dude finally becomes usable as he finally gains an evolution form that is actually kick ass... the problem?
It's only available to the GALARIAN Farfetch'd :skully

Meaning I hope you buy Sword and Shield because you ain't actually getting a Farfetch'd that is worth a shit otherwise:obamalaugh
That shit is just mean to literally have an evolution be stuck around a different version of the same Pokemon.
 
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