Star Wars vs To Aru

[Astaro]

Also how does someone see in pitch black darkness? Or for that matter move and stay grounded if time and space therefore, gravity, no longer exist?

And really? You might want to brush up on Maou Gakuin at the very least but I seem my point went over your head: hyperbole and gross exaggertion is an extremely common occurrence in LNs. Especially power fantasy ones and/or isekais that are based around the protagonists being self inserts or the "average" Japanese male teenager.

Authors intention is to show the universe and everything in it was destroyed. Details like those can’t just be attributed to reality warping on Othinus’ part since the whole volume is her trying to make Touma suffer

Fine but arguing the exaggerations and flowery writing in other light novels to accuse Index of doing the same thing just for being part of the same medium even with such a clear feat being presented is pretty disingenuous

How about some details of that vision of the Sith Lord “destroying the universe” so I can see what doesn’t count as exaggeration?

 

[Churronzon]

Post the actual feats.

The feats are already on this site. Goldenboy posted so many that he got complaints that it was looking like a Toaru Respect Thread.
We explicitly see Othinus's universe destruction. It's as blatantly obvious as it gets and not up for interpretation. Othinus being at least baseline universal is so mainstream and accepted that it's even in Accelerator's respect thread.

• Learns how to accurately reflect magical attacks, and uses it to tear apart angels
  • This attack he reflected could rival Gungnir, a spear that destroyed the universe

This is the image we're talking about.

Or for that matter move and stay grounded if time and space therefore, gravity, no longer exist?

Same way Touma can even breathe; Othinus creates a world that allows him to. It still has space-time and gravity so it's not pure nothingness.
The universe is so flat that there's not a micron worth of deviation.

Kamijou finally realized he was lying on his back.

Once he sprang to his feet, he was left speechless. Everything around him was odd. It was
black. Nothing but black. The ground was perfectly flat. It was even more level and free of
defect than the silicon wafer for a semiconductor. From where he stood to the horizon,
the ground did not rise or fall by even a micron.

“What is this place?”

Nothing natural could be seen. Nothing unnatural could be seen.
Despite the previous use of the word, it was unclear whether the term “horizon” even
applied. Both the ground and the sky were colored pure black, so it was impossible to
distinguish between them.

He turned around a full 360 degrees, but the scenery did not change. He stopped at the
spot he thought he had started at, but he was not even sure that was correct. With nothing
to use as a landmark, he could not be sure.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 9 Chapter 5 Part 1

 

[Aurelian]

Authors intention

You know how we roll on this in vs matches.

is to show the universe and everything in it was destroyed. Details like those can’t just be attributed to reality warping on Othinus’ part since the whole volume is her trying to make Touma suffer

Why should this be believed in light of the fact very blatant details like gravity, being able to see in complete darkness when there is supposed to be no light, are clearly omitted and simply be hand-waved as critics nitpicking when this is important?

Fine but arguing the exaggerations and flowery writing in other light novels to accuse Index of doing the same thing just for being part of the same medium even with such a clear feat being presented is pretty disingenuous

How exactly is it disingenuous?

How about some details of that vision of the Sith Lord “destroying the universe”?

You mean Ashera seeing the entire galaxy being devoured, then stars and other galaxies being more quickly consumed as the Sith Emperor's power continues to expotentially explode with each Force-Drain ritual. That was literally a Force-vision she had in Shadow of the Emperor expansion intro cinematic for the Sith Inquisitor character. I also have yet to see any respectable telepathy/mind-control resistance from Toaru characters yet.

Or again the fact the Force is multiversal scope.

Hell one of his weaker feats is the original Force draining of Nathema was so potent even a thousand years later that if a powerful Force-User visited the planet and didn't concentrate to keep their presence together they'd be literally obliterated from existence. Even the colors of the nearby stars were drained by the aftermath of his technique and that was the Sith Emperor at his weakest early in his life.

The feats are already on this site.
This is the image we're talking about.

Same way Touma can even breathe; Othinus creates a world that allows him to. It still has space-time and gravity so it's not pure nothingness.
The universe is so flat that there's not a micron worth of deviation.

• Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 9 Chapter 5 Part 1

And there hasn't been a consensus on any of these things besides one sides interpretation on them. You can operate on an agenda certain factors are causing x or y but that doesn't mean they can be omitted in a vs match up. Death of the Author is certainly one of the things we follow up on here, authorial intent doesn't override that.

"Well nothing was said that Othinus WASN'T creating a special Touma only effecting gravity field where he stays centered on some unknown floor despite everything supposedly being destroyed around him."

That's not how this hobby works.

As far as Goldenboy is concerned with his feat compilation thread for Toaru, many things are still posted there that are questioned despite certain people here running around presenting them at face value to be what they want them to be.

 

[Churronzon]

So you disagree with the respect thread?

 

[Aurelian]

So you disagree with the respect thread?

No, there is a difference between disagreeing with a respect thread vs disagreeing with how certain others interpret feats presented in them one way or another. Or do you think anyone who has healthy skepticism regarding Toaru feats for certain characters or claims have to take everything at face value?

 

[Astaro]

You know how we roll on this in vs matches.

Why should this be believed in light of the fact very blatant details like gravity, being able to see in complete darkness when there is supposed to be no light, are clearly omitted and simply be hand-waved as critics nitpicking when this is important?

How exactly is it disingenuous?

You mean Ashera seeing the entire galaxy being devoured, then stars and other galaxies being more quickly consumed as the Sith Emperor's power continues to expotentially explode with each Force-Drain ritual. That was literally a Force-vision she had in Shadow of the Emperor expansion intro cinematic for the Sith Inquisitor character. I also have yet to see any respectable telepathy/mind-control resistance from Toaru characters yet.

Or again the fact the Force is multiversal scope.

Hell one of his weaker feats is the original Force draining of Nathema was so potent even a thousand years later that if a powerful Force-User visited the planet and didn't concentrate to keep their presence together they'd be literally obliterated from existence. Even the colors of the nearby stars were drained by the aftermath of his technique and that was the Sith Emperor at his weakest early in his life.


And there hasn't been a consensus on any of these things besides one sides interpretation on them. You can operate on an agenda certain factors are causing x or y but that doesn't mean they can be omitted in a vs match up. Death of the Author is certainly one of the things we follow up on here, authorial intent doesn't override that.

"Well nothing was said that Othinus WASN'T creating a special Touma only effecting gravity field where he stays centered on some unknown floor despite everything supposedly being destroyed around him."

That's not how this hobby works.

As far as Goldenboy is concerned with his feat compilation thread for Toaru, many things are still posted there that are questioned despite certain people here running around presenting them at face value to be what they want them to be.

Yes, in Vs matches, we go by feats. And she clearly destroyed the universe as I’ve posted with scans. We have no idea things would look like after the universe is destroyed in real life and given this a a reality warping god that did this, anything goes. Real life physics be damned.

Disigineous because Toaru isn’t Overlord or Mahouka. Nor even done by the same writers as those series.

Gradual Galaxy destruction not even a single shot of that, let alone the universe.

And Ive yet to see to see single respectable universe destroying feat in Star Wars. Barely Galaxy level for that matter since even that kind of destruction is gradual

You got two at least mind-fucking Magic Gods who uses those as attacks. Any action from them destroys the universe unless they nerf themselves to infinity, let alone attacks, yet none of the other Magic Gods have been mindfucked in the centuries they’ve battled each other.

Won’t even be a chance for TP since the entire Star Wars verse and everyone in it is getting nuked from the start the moment any unnerfed Magic God steps in

 

[Aurelian]

Yes, in Vs matches, we go by feats.

Correct.

And she clearly destroyed the universe as I’ve posted with scans. We have no idea things would look like after the universe is destroyed in real life and given this a a reality warping god that did this, anything goes. Real life physics be damned.

VS matches require a certain overlap.

That overlap is fulfilled by us injecting the real world where and when we can to connect two unconnected verses together that otherwise make this debate and hobby pointlessly tedious. You know this to be how it works. Weird things like "everything is destroyed but oh well gravity and some how light to see me despite it being all black and nothing else" is kind of a weak cop-out to downplay what a weird way this universe destroying feat is supposed to be.

Disigineous because Toaru isn’t Overlord or Mahouka. Nor even done by the same writers as those series.

That's now how being disingenuous even works. I brought up an example of LN writers in general being obsessed with hyperbole and exagerrating things with either narration or character fallible statements. Not that Toaru is capped at their same level because that's their level, you didn't understand me at all here.

Gradual Galaxy destruction not even a single shot of that or the universe.

The universe was already posted.

I'm not sure what you got "gradual galaxy" destruction from and I've asked multiple times for evidence of telepathy or mind-control resistance which no one defending Toaru has given. I have however stated that Force-Users can resist literal psychic entropy, attacks on the soul as well as mind and body, precognition, fate and casuality reading and manipulation/resistance, precognition and clairvoyance, attacking through multiple dimensions (and fun fact: hyperspace is actually a separate universe of tachyonic energy compared to the material universe i.e. baryonic matter); I'm not seeing much to counter this.

Hell I posted the example of Sidious casually choking out Dooku with just line of sight across the galaxy. Its either a) Force Powers are MFTL or b) Force powers are instantaneous.

And Ive yet to see to see single respectable universe destroying feat in Stars. Barely Galaxy level for that matter since even that kind of destruction is gradual

Barely galaxy level?

The ritual would end all life and destroy every single planet and star in the galaxy the instant it happened. After that Vitiate doesn't even need rituals to devour galaxies and he still isn't anything to Abeloth/The Mother. And a more powerful clone Palpatine required every single Jedi that had ever existed to drag his soul to the netherworld of the Force and again the Force is multiversal; permeating not just dimensions and realities but every universe.

And I don't want to bring Devilworld into this but there are literal cosmic entities who can create and manipulate concepts like time and space without caring what they do and are stated to be nigh omnipotent beings.

@Atem can add this stuff in.

You got two at least mind-fucking Magic Gods who uses those as attacks. Any action from them destroys the universe unless they nerf themselves to infinity, let alone attacks, yet none of the other Magic Gods have been mindfucked in the centuries they’ve battled each other.

Won’t even be a chance for TP since the entire Star Wars verse is getting nuked from the start the moment any unnerfed Magic God steps in

Yeah that's not happening.

1) Because I want to see these mind-fuck feats, the scale they operate on, the distance they used them, countering Force-user precognition and clairvoyance. But yeah I'm sure people who can telepathically fuck with other telepaths/psychics who can casually mind-control entire planetary populations are going to worry about that with the mid-tiers much less the top tiers who are literally mind-fucking people through dimensions and across galaxies.
2) If you go back to this infinity standing power level nonsense its going to be more stonewalling bullshit that just makes Toaru look worse here
3) None of that matters because any high tier Force-User worth their salt is going to mind-fuck any of these "gods" instantly

 

[Astaro]

Correct.

VS matches require a certain overlap.

That overlap is fulfilled by us injecting the real world where and when we can to connect two unconnected verses together that otherwise make this debate and hobby pointlessly tedious. You know this to be how it works. Weird things like "everything is destroyed but oh well gravity and some how light to see me despite it being all black and nothing else" is kind of a weak cop-out to downplay what a weird way this universe destroying feat is supposed to be.

That's now how being disingenuous even works. I brought up an example of LN writers in general being obsessed with hyperbole and exagerrating things with either narration or character fallible statements. Not that Toaru is capped at their same level because that's their level, you didn't understand me at all here.

The universe was already posted.

I'm not sure what you got "gradual galaxy" destruction from and I've asked multiple times for evidence of telepathy or mind-control resistance which no one defending Toaru has given. I have however stated that Force-Users can resist literal psychic entropy, attacks on the soul as well as mind and body, precognition, fate and casuality reading and manipulation/resistance, precognition and clairvoyance, attacking through multiple dimensions (and fun fact: hyperspace is actually a separate universe of tachyonic energy compared to the material universe i.e. baryonic matter); I'm not seeing much to counter this.

Hell I posted the example of Sidious casually choking out Dooku with just line of sight across the galaxy. Its either a) Force Powers are MFTL or b) Force powers are instantaneous.

Barely galaxy level?

The ritual would end all life and destroy every single planet and star in the galaxy the instant it happened. After that Vitiate doesn't even need rituals to devour galaxies and he still isn't anything to Abeloth/The Mother. And a more powerful clone Palpatine required every single Jedi that had ever existed to drag his soul to the netherworld of the Force and again the Force is multiversal; permeating not just dimensions and realities but every universe.

And I don't want to bring Devilworld into this but there are literal cosmic entities who can create and manipulate concepts like time and space with caring what they do and are stated to be nigh omnipotent beings.

@Atem can add this stuff in.

Yeah that's not happening.

1) Because I want to see these mind-fuck feats, the scale they operate on, the distance they used them, countering Force-user precognition and clairvoyance. But yeah I'm sure people who can telepathically fuck with other telepaths/psychics who can casually mind-control entire planetary populations are going to worry about that with the mid-tiers much less the top tiers who are literally mind-fucking people through dimensions and across galaxies.
2) If you go back to this infinity standing power level nonsense its going to be more stonewalling bullshit that just makes Toaru look worse here
3) None of that matters because any high tier Force-User worth their salt is going to mind-fuck any of these "gods" instantly

Again, attributed to general reality warping on her part the same way she destroyed the universe yet kept Touma intact. Doesn’t take away or remove the fact that she destroyed the universe. Include real life if you like, only further reinforces this given Toaru shares real life history and operates under a real life universe

No you tried to reason those novels having exaggerated writing as a way to disregard actual feats presented in Toaru

I got it from that very scan you argued with. He consumed a Galaxy and went on to destroy other stars and galaxies. Gradual universe destroying as a fact given the billions of galaxies to go through in just the observable universe alone

If you have anything more impressive to post, do so.

Feats were presented already by me and @Churronzon Two Magic Gods with mindfucking powers. Two Magic Gods who doing anything at all destroys the universe by accident, let alone them using an actual attack. Them and the other Magic Gods have been taking each other’s attacks endlessly

- Entropy. And? Magic Gods not only take each others attacks regularly but the infinite Phase meant to contain them was destroyed by Crowley who otherwise couldn’t even scratch them.

Attacks on the soul, mind, and body: All covered by the two Magic Gods mentioned

Fate and causality manipulation: Even a wannabe Magic Gods, St. Germain, trascnends causality itself and would reappear in every universe Othinus made as a result. Magic Gods unintentionally alter fate and causality just by existing yet none have affected one another through this method, hence their endless fighting

-Attacking through multiple dimensions

Funny how your the one now bringing up dimensions before anyone else. Guess dimensions are now impressive.

Anyway, Curtana swords do the same thing and even Fiamma found them junk not worth needing

Neat and Othinus made several galaxies collide into each other and fires infinitely accelerated crossbows that reach the ends of the universe instantly. Touma was able to dodge those yet she still regularly tagged and killed him

Instant? So are Magic Gods above Othinus who are able to move around in their own Phase that the slightest gaps of go on infinitely

The ritual would end all life and destroy every single planet and star in the galaxy the instant it happened. After that Vitiate doesn't even need rituals to devour galaxies and he still isn't anything to Abeloth/The Mother. And a more powerful clone Palpatine required every single Jedi that had ever existed to drag his soul to the netherworld of the Force

And?

Force exists across universes. And what are its feats? Existing and nothing else isn’t much.

And I don't want to bring Devilworld into this but there are literal cosmic entities who can create and manipulate concepts like time and space with caring what they do and are stated to be nigh omnipotent beings.

And?

1) Already done several times.
2) Doesn’t matter. It’s a plot relevant part of the story: Magic Gods need to reduce their power infinitely before entering the universe from their Phase. Otherwise, the universe gets destroyed by accident by any of them.
3) Universe and every Force user already eradicated before they can try. Requires no input on their part other than just being there

 

[Papa Nier]

Celestials creating Disney Star Wars in Legends/Lucas canon.

“Splendid Ap sought to seal the pocket dimension behind him, but something wasn’t quite right. Then he remembered the error! Their actions with the tiny movers would leave behind an echo of them at a projected future moment in time. Even worse, the small bubble that had been the pocket dimension would not cease to exist, as it ought to, but would continue to grow. He, in essence, created a parallel dimension that would begin to develop its own separate history and timeline based on—but apart from—its original. Yet it had no true beginning, save the one he gave it, and its path would follow a different trajectory from the original. Without the investment of the Celestials working on it, developing it into an interwoven fabric, and without even his hand upon it, it would only ever be hollow and sterile, a pale and broken imitation of a far greater thing.” - Source: Supernatural Encounters: The Trial and Transformation of Arhul Hextrophon

 

[Paxton]

That reminds me, don't MGs also have some pretty insane clairvoyance?

Pretty sure @Mr.OMG has the quote, since I asked about it when we were talking in the To Aru Discord.

 

[Astaro]

@Papa Nier Really want to call creating the Disney canon an L more than anything but fine. That’s a fair feat. Threads probably a stalemate now between Magic Gods and Celestials

 

[Paxton]

@Papa Nier Really want to call creating the Disney canon an L more than anything but fine. That’s a fair feat. Threads probably a stalemate now between Magic Gods and Celestials

 

[Mr.OMG]

Why does this thread have 6 pages?

 

[Aurelian]

Again, attributed to general reality warping on her part the same way she destroyed the universe yet kept Touma intact. Doesn’t take away or remove the fact that she destroyed the universe. Include real life if you like, only further reinforces this given Toaru shares real life history and operates under a real life universe

You didn't understand the fact that its a very weird statement to say "you can't see shit but you can see me despite it being pitch black, no air, and no light or gravity", being a strange contradiction to regard where Touma is. Especially adding the caveat of injecting personal head-canon to explain why someone isn't auto-dying when everything else is gone supposedly to justify it happening in the first place.

No you tried to reason those novels having exaggerated writing as a way to disregard actual feats presented in Toaru

No, I stated its a common occurrence LNs have hyperbole, that isn't me being disingenuous about anything.

I got it from that very scan you argued with. He consumed a Galaxy and went on to destroy other stars and galaxies. Gradual universe destroying as a fact given the billions of galaxies to go through in just the observable universe alone

I didn't post a scan though? And besides I'm not sure how you make a comparison of "gradual galaxy" destruction and define it in the singular with someone eventually devouring the universe within a time frame of a year or less.

If you have anything more impressive to post, do so.

I already did multiple times.

Feats were presented already by me and @Churronzon Two Magic Gods with mindfucking powers. Two Magic Gods who doing anything at all destroys the universe by accident, let alone them using an actual attack. Them and the other Magic Gods have been taking each other’s attacks endlessly

You haven't posted anything regarding telepathy or mind-control at all for Toaru. Not for range, effects, scale, or scope at all. Vitiate casually mind-controlled thousands of powerful Sith sorcerers and Sith Lords and even stronger ones can mind-jack billions to quadrillions of beings with little effort into being their mental servants; Sidious did this multiple times, Vitiate, Nihilus, the Ones, Celestials, etc...

- Entropy. And? Magic Gods not only take each others attacks regularly but the infinite Phase meant to contain them was destroyed by Crowley who otherwise couldn’t even scratch them.

Do you even know what the concept of entropy is?

Attacks on the soul, mind, and body: All covered by the two Magic Gods mentioned

Still waiting for the scale to be shown.

Fate and causality manipulation: Even a wannabe Magic Gods, St. Germain, trascnends causality itself and would reappear in every universe Othinus made as a result. Magic Gods unintentionally alter fate and causality just by existing yet none have affected one another through this method, hence their endless fighting

Appearing somewhere or everywhere has nothing to do with causality or fate. Nothing you or anyone else defending Toaru have posted or suggested anything that is going to counter Force-User prescience, precognition, or clairvoyance much less Shatterpoints.

-Attacking through multiple dimensions

I'm not acting like separate dimensions are necessarily universes here. Merely stating range for Force-User TP and sensory feats. Its not my fault you have an issue with Force-Users being able to tag people operating in hyperspace or in different dimensions.

Funny how your the one now bringing up dimensions before anyone else. Guess dimensions are now impressive.

See above.

Anyway, Curtana swords do the same thing and even Fiamma found them junk not worth needing

I don't even know what this means or what your replying to in my past post.

Neat and Othinus made several galaxies collide into each other and fires infinitely accelerated crossbows that reach the ends of the universe instantly. Touma was able to dodge those yet she still regularly tagged and killed him

Never saw any galaxies being posted and that's still not going to compare to something instantaneous. They still get their minds fried and obliterated the moment the match starts. As you say: neat.

Instant? So are Magic Gods above Othinus who are able to move around in their own Phase that the slightest gaps of go on infinitely

Instant is instanteous. And no, you are really not doing this infinity bullshit here are you?

And?

Force exists across universes. And what are its feats? Existing and nothing else isn’t much.

And?

A multiversal power is greater then anything in Toaru. Besides that all of existence is due to the Force so I'm not sure how this is "nothing much."

1) Already done several times.

You haven't.

2) Doesn’t matter. It’s a plot relevant part of the story: Magic Gods need to reduce their power infinitely before entering the universe from their Phase. Otherwise, the universe gets destroyed by accident by any of them.

That's not going to fly here ever. You are entirely repeating that debacle months back in the Hilarious Arguments thread of everyone else, to go by consensus, of the nonsense about "infinite power being divided" or whatever the fuck it was with the Magic Gods "infinite power" nonsense. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this.

3) Universe and every Force user already eradicated before they can try. Requires no input on their part other than just being there

Nah, don't I think so.

Star Wars Legends/Lucas side has psychics who can attack instantaneously while on auto-pilot mode with the Force empowering and controlling them if they need it, a power that is multiversal in scope and scale, which operates at the speed of thought for people who can see, affect, and change the future before it happens who are well into galactic to universal+ tier TP aren't going to get the jump on them in a battle of who shoots first with their competition here.

The Celestials aren't even as powerful as the Ones individually and Luke scales to the Father and the Mother so its certainly not a stalemate the way I see it.

Anyway you aren't going to convince anyone of this stuff for Toaru's Magic Gods about the infinite power being infinitely divided or whatever that tangent was that's rearing its head in this thread again.

 

[Aurelian]

That said I sleep on the rest of this match since its going to end up being a stonewall debate at the rate things are going. Color me biased or whatever but the idea that "infinitely powerful Magic Gods" who are smaller then an infinite dimension contraversely somehow gives them said scale with some kind of special ability that somehow nerfs them despite "infinite power" just makes me want to not continue this.

 

[Astaro]

You didn't understand the fact that its a very weird statement to say "you can't see shit but you can see me despite it being pitch black, no air, and no light or gravity", being a strange contradiction to regard where Touma is. Especially adding the caveat of injecting personal head-canon to explain why someone isn't auto-dying when everything else is gone supposedly to justify it happening in the first place.

No, I stated its a common occurrence LNs have hyperbole, that isn't me being disingenuous about anything.

I didn't post a scan though? And besides I'm not sure how you make a comparison of "gradual galaxy" destruction and define it in the singular with someone eventually devouring the universe within a time frame of a year or less.

I already did multiple times.

You haven't posted anything regarding telepathy or mind-control at all for Toaru. Not for range, effects, scale, or scope at all. Vitiate casually mind-controlled thousands of powerful Sith sorcerers and Sith Lords and even stronger ones can mind-jack billions to quadrillions of beings with little effort into being their mental servants; Sidious did this multiple times, Vitiate, Nihilus, the Ones, Celestials, etc...

Do you even know what the concept of entropy is?

Still waiting for the scale to be shown.

Appearing somewhere or everywhere has nothing to do with causality or fate. Nothing you or anyone else defending Toaru have posted or suggested anything that is going to counter Force-User prescience, precognition, or clairvoyance much less Shatterpoints.

I'm not acting like separate dimensions are necessarily universes here. Merely stating range for Force-User TP and sensory feats. Its not my fault you have an issue with Force-Users being able to tag people operating in hyperspace or in different dimensions.

See above.

I don't even know what this means or what your replying to in my past post.

Never saw any galaxies being posted and that's still not going to compare to something instantaneous. They still get their minds fried and obliterated the moment the match starts. As you say: neat.

Instant is instanteous. And no, you are really not doing this infinity bullshit here are you?

A multiversal power is greater then anything in Toaru.

You haven't.

That's not going to fly here ever. You are entirely repeating that debacle months back in the Hilarious Arguments thread of everyone else, to go by consensus, of the nonsense about "infinite power being divided" or whatever the fuck it was with the Magic Gods "infinite power" nonsense. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this.

Nah, don't I think so.

Star Wars Legends/Lucas side has psychics who can attack instantaneously while on auto-pilot mode with the Force empowering and controlling them if they need it, a power that is multiversal in scope and scale, which operates at the speed of thought for people who can see, affect, and change the future before it happens who are well into galactic to universal+ tier TP aren't going to get the jump on them in a battle of who shoots first with their competition here.

The Celestials aren't even as powerful as the Ones individually and Luke scales to the Father and the Mother so its certainly not a stalemate the way I see it.

Anyway you aren't going to convince anyone of this stuff for Toaru's Magic Gods about the infinite power being infinitely divided or whatever that tangent was that's rearing its head in this thread again.

Got anything substantial or are you going to continue pointlessly arguing semantics over a clear as day universe destroying feat? I guarantee you more than half of fiction would be downplayed if you were this stingy about demanding what a realistic aftermath of destroying the universe is.

Too bad there’s not hyperbole here when it’s an actual feat that was accomplished

Everything you posted to me so far was nothing worth even noting

Basically anything a full power Magic God does = destroying or affecting the entire universe by accident and two of them specialize in mind and soul destroying attacks. Not a single other Magic God has had their mind or soul subjugating to those two in the centuries they battle.

Do you even know what the concept of entropy is?

Psychic Entropy = overall decline and decay of Force powers but I’m sure your going to throw in some flowery text to make it sound more impressive than it is unironically

Appearing somewhere or everywhere has nothing to do with causality or fate. Nothing you or anyone else defending Toaru have posted or suggested anything that is going to counter Force-User prescience, precognition, or clairvoyance much less Shatterpoints.

No but I never said that, I said St. Germain always existing when ever reality and fate itself says they shouldn’t does.

“Before wondering about my credibility, you wondered how I knew about those hundreds of billions of hells you experienced, didn’t you? Well, I understand. I am neither a magician nor a Magic God. But don’t you dare say that the category of St. Germain is somehow inferior to that of the Magic God. No matter how perfect and happy a world the Magic Gods try to create, I will always occur at some point, regardless of the possibilities or environment involved. I am a being that transcends causality and the phases.”

Magic Gods control destiny and causality on a universal scale as a default power and none of them affect each other with it

I'm not acting like separate dimensions are necessarily universes here. Merely stating range for Force-User TP and sensory feats. Its not my fault you have an issue with Force-Users being able to tag people operating in hyperspace or in different dimensions.

Not a problem so long as your fine with Mid tier characters in Toaru with just Curtana doing the same.

Never saw any galaxies being posted and that's still not going to compare to something instantaneous. They still get their minds fried and obliterated the moment the match starts. As you say: neat.

Posted them in the quotes you called a pocket world. Instantaneous tells me nothing for speed

Instant is instanteous. And no, you are really not doing this infinity bullshit here are you?

Less vague than this instantenous stuff your now trying

A multiversal power is greater then anything in Toaru. Besides that all of existence is due to the Force so I'm not sure how this is "nothing much."

Show me this Multiversal power doing anything besides just existing then. Otherwise it’s no more than arguing with Type Moon’s Akasha

That's not going to fly here ever. You are entirely repeating that debacle months back in the Hilarious Arguments thread of everyone else, to go by consensus, of the nonsense about "infinite power being divided" or whatever the fuck it was with the Magic Gods "infinite power" nonsense. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this.

Going to need to do more than a blatant Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy

Nah, don't I think so.

Star Wars Legends/Lucas side has psychics who can attack instantaneously while on auto-pilot mode with the Force empowering and controlling them if they need it, a power that is multiversal in scope and scale, which operates at the speed of thought for people who can see, affect, and change the future before it happens who are well into galactic to universal+ tier TP aren't going to get the jump on them in a battle of who shoots first with their competition here.

Yet not a single universe feat from any of them. And slower than Othinus’ crossbow shots Touma was reacting too as well.

The Celestials aren't even as powerful as the Ones individually and Luke scales to the Father and the Mother so its certainly not a stalemate the way I see it.

Guess I overestimated them. I was honestly being generous since the Celestials showings don’t even beat Othinus who becomes the benchmark of power for several following villains that are above her

 

[Aurelian]

Got anything substantial or are you going to continue pointlessly arguing semantics over a clear as day universe destroying feat?

There isn't any semantic arguments I'm working on; my arguments and counters aren't based off wordplay here. You posted something that isn't clear-cut but expect us to take at face value as "universe" busting power when nothing has been shown to that.

Not semantics, stop peddling this.

I guarantee you more than half of fiction would be downplayed if you were this stingy about demanding what a realistic aftermath of destroying the universe is.

It's not, that's just your own personal bias when it comes to Toaru coming into play. I listed off several examples of this. Stop trying to poison the well.

Too bad there’s not hyperbole here when it’s an actual feat that was accomplished

Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I gave an example of this in other LNs because end of the day: these novels are formatted in a way of simple paragraphs to take up an entire page.

Everything you posted to me so far was nothing worth even noting

That's nice of you believe that but its not really going to change anything since you haven't given a single TP feat worth a damn.

Basically anything a full power Magic God does = destroying or affecting the entire universe by accident and two of them specialize in mind and soul destroying attacks. Not a single other Magic God has had their mind or soul subjugating to those two in the centuries they battle.

So no TP feats? Neat.
No examples of entire populations being mind-controlled, having their memories or thoughts altered or changed against their will, personalities rewritten, nothing like that at all.
So they get brain-fried and mind-wiped.

Psychic Entropy = overall decline and decay of Force powers but I’m sure your going to throw in some flowery text to make it sound more impressive than it is unironically

No.

Entropy is entropy. Why are you attributing it solely to the Force in this context? Entropy is the literal concept of decay, stagnation, and destruction. Luke experienced this, resisted and became immune to it, still found the time to psychically unite hundreds of thousands of minds while multi-tasking to mind-fuck another Force-User who was already in hyperspace and outbound from the Mimbaan system while easing their deaths after resisting The Dark.

No but I never said that, I said St. Germain always existing when ever reality and fate itself says they shouldn’t does.

Still has nothing to do with fate or causality.

Magic Gods control destiny and causality on a universal scale as a default power and none of them affect each other with it

Doesn't sound universal scale to me.

Not a problem so long as your fine with Mid tier characters in Toaru with just Curtana doing the same.

You haven't even established feats for the top tiers in Toaru not being instantly annihilated so this is coping.

Posted them in the quotes you called a pocket world. Instantaneous tells me nothing for speed

Instantaneous is faster then any concept of speed.

Less vague than this instantenous stuff your now trying

There's nothing vague about the speed of thought.

Show me this Multiversal power doing anything besides just existing then. Otherwise it’s no more than arguing with Type Moon’s Akasha

I already did that if you bothered doing more then speed-reading my posts and rebuttals. The Force already has the energy to create a multiverse and multiple realms, that energy can be used to destroy as much as create.

Going to need to do more than a blatant Argumentum Ad Populum fallacy

Going to need to do more then ad infinitum try to poison the well over and over.

Yet not a single universe feat from any of them. And slower than Othinus’ crossbow shots Touma was reacting too as well.

There were already several posted. The difference is the feats posted aren't anchored in flavored poetic language that makes discerning what happened some kind of mystery as its direct and actually tangible.

Guess I overestimated them. I was honestly being generous since the Celestials showings don’t even beat Othinus who becomes the benchmark of power for several following villains that are above her

Again this is pure coping: you haven't posted anything that wasn't nebulous for destructive capabilities, you've posted nothing to show they can resist telepathic or soul based attacks from Force-Users (which is about the 5th or 6th time now you've and the other Toaru supporters have notably sidestepped and evaded on providing compared to known feats like high tier Sith and other Force-Users enthralling and enslaving entire populations of star systems under their mental control much less stronger ones), you don't have an answer for Toaru to counter the Force itself (and it can attack as the dark side tried to destroy the Darkstaff), and I've seen nothing to indicate these magic gods are as powerful as you claim.

At this point given my rising ire and the continued stonewalling I'm getting more and more the impression you simply will not accept any match up where Toaru loses. So end of this, there is no point of keeping this thread open any longer before things get more heated so I'll simply lock this thread as this has gone on long enough.

 

[Aurelian]

So yeah this thread is done, 6 pages is enough of this.