That's a no limits fallacy argument. No one in Toaru has shown any sort of mental or telepathic resistance on the scale of planetary to galactic+ level TP that Force-Users engage in. Not too mention resistance to reality warping has nothing to do with resistance to being mind-controlled, turning into a vegetable, or outright have their souls and minds taken away from them.
Far be it for me to say that immortality, regeneration, and universal-scale reality warping is more impressive than galactic telepathy.
I'd appreciate a citation on the instantaneous speed of thought you're talking about and proof that it's not hyperbole like you're claiming for the Toaru side.
Magic Gods resist the following hax they themselves possess and they also can't kill each other.
So I doubt the magic gods are doing any of that. Which further compounds my issue with ToAru supporters being disiningenuinous about certain things or feats with their series the last time I was here to get involved in a match up with them.
Sounds like you're asking for proof.
Time and fate manipulation among other things:
Magic God Othinus could control everything. Without exaggeration, she controlled the
world itself. If she wanted to, she could have galaxies collide to kill Kamijou Touma. Or
she could break the bonds between the particles making up his body and cause his very
existence to disperse. If she was the slightest bit dissatisfied with something, she could
turn back time, re-lay the rails of fate that led to the future, and create the exact result she
wanted.
- Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 9 Chapter 8 Part 2
There's more quotes about passive fate/destiny manipulation and probability manipulation for Othinus if you want them.
Just looking at Chimera assaults your senses, burns your soul, drives people to madness,
and gives you a boner:
“Chiiimeeeraaa. Now there’s an annoying one.”
“Who’s that?”
Kamisato strained his eyes to see through the smoky scenery.
Then his vision exploded with psychedelic colors.
He covered his face and screamed before the goddesses gave him a belated warning.
“Oh, a human like you should avoid looking right at her. It’s just like looking at the sun
though a normal telescope and your very soul will burn away if you have poor morals.”
“Honestly. That’s supposed to be too beautiful to bear? I just don’t understand humans.”
“Are you trying to ask what that is? It’s Chimera.”
[...]
“There’s a limit to the beauty you can produce by polishing the human body, so that
narcissistic and self-destructive pervert started taking in elements and structures from
other creatures. Even if it’s a reaction like the renaissance was to formal religious art, it’s
still frightening. Oh, and hearing her voice or smelling her scent could drive you mad, so
be careful.”
Some things were unavoidable even after being warned.
- Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 17 Between the Lines 3
Magic Gods are unaffected by the Forgotten God's sensory/mind manipulation that makes him look like a
David Lynch project:
“Sorry, sorry.” She did not seem to care much. “So this time it’s the Forgotten God. It’s
kind of sad. Lovecraft used him as reference material, but the fiction and nonfiction got
mixed together so badly his original form was completely forgotten! Didn’t people also
decide there was a connection to Crowley, so they stopped all research into this Magic
God’s historicity?
It was not that Kamisato could not see it due to a lack of light or due to great speed. He
could not comprehend it no matter how much he stared at it. Once again, the human and
the Magic Gods were likely perceiving it differently.
[...]
Kamisato could not see
what had happened. No, he could not comprehend it. At the very least, he could tell this
was different from the previous projectiles. The Forgotten God itself had likely charged in
from further down the tunnel.
He finally saw something.
It looked nothing like beautiful Niang-Niang and Nephthys. But what even was it? It was
extremely simplified yet incredibly eerie like a stick figure drawn by a small child
awkwardly holding a black crayon.
- Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 17 Between the Lines 3
The universal entity, Othinus, created and destroyed billions of universes, but she couldn't detect or destroy the Hidden World where the True Magic Gods reside. This Hidden World encompasses "nonexistence".
It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not
entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few
voices lurked within where no one could interfere.
[...]
“Oh, Niang-Niang. Where have you been?”
“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here, remember? And I can’t leave
regardless. Even if I did, I’d just end up gathering unwanted attention on a global scale
like Othinus. I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”
“Does the same go for the others?”
“Old man, did you start forgetting things once you became a mummy? The zombie girl,
the chimera, and everyone are here. It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across
each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”
“If you think about it, you could call this our way of being ecological. We do it because the
world is too small for us to live in, but it isn’t easy putting up with being here.”
The darkness audibly split apart.
An external power caused a vertical tear.
Othinus and Kamijou Touma had been wrong about one thing.
They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had
assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and
leaving nothing at all behind.
But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had
not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one
last phase had existed.
This black world was the place not even Magic God Othinus had been able to destroy.
- Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 10 Epilogue
Does the Star Wars side have feats that would let them accomplish what Othinus couldn't?
Sounds like hyperbole to me.
Well it's not. True Magic Gods are infinitely stronger than universe busting Othinus. True Magic Gods twitching their legs would destroy any universe they try to enter.
“But, High Priest,” cut in a girl’s voice that sounded even younger and also childish. “Miss
Zombie’s theory is essentially the same as holding up opposing mirrors, right? By splitting
up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the
world whenever we move an arm or leg.”
“What about it, Niang-Niang?”
“I’m just wondering if the symbol ∞ will really grow weaker when you split it up. I don’t
want to smash the world up like stained glass the first step I take. We’re not like Othinus.”
“It doesn’t matter if it’s a mere deception as long as it works. Just like a Moebius strip or
a Klein bottle, some concepts are allowed to exist even if they can’t be properly defined,
Niang-Niang.”
“Yeah, but I prefer practical ideas over theories. You could say I’m the inventor type
instead of the scientist type. I have a hard time believing it’ll actually work just because
the theories all add up. I can’t rest easy until I try it out for myself and see that it works.”
“Then how about we try it?”
- Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index Volume 12 Prologue
Yes I recall this being brought up many times as well. Which is why I generally don't trust why so many LN writers love to wank off that kind of jargon when its not really observable or definite outside of statements.
I
absolutely agree. I don't give a shit about the infinity and beyond AP crap either because who wants to get a PHD to figure all that out. I would place True Magic Gods at Universal+ as well and be done with it. The ironic part is that the author is still less "jargonistic" than the definition this site uses for infinity.
Unless you get into Set Theory, there's no difference between one size of infinity and another. Debating anyone past universal+ is pointless.
How? If you want to argue this, make a debate thread in the Meta-Battledome. Marvel writers obsessed with cosmology go to Cantor and Cardinality Laws all the time to justify "levels" of greater infinity for the scale of their "omniverse" or whatever the fuck they call it.
The scaling used on this site doesn't use set theory/cardinalities to begin with so it actually contradicts your argument. There's no difference between destroying an infinite sized universe and an infinite sized multiverse since they are part of the same cardinality. Suggsverse makes this same mistake as well. Lionel kept trying to stack infinite multiverses on top of each other in order to create petaverses(and so on and so forth), not knowing that they are part of the same cardinality and thus all dictate the same size.
So universe+, multiverse+, megaverse+, etc. are all the same exact size.
Dormammu doesn't have infinite power even in the Dark Dimension, neither does Shuma Gorath in his dimension, not even The One Above Fucking All or The Presence have Infinitely Infinite Power in their Avatar forms... because most writers know that shit is bullocks. And again, them being able to be knocked from Infinite to Finite kinda goes against them being Infinitely Infinite at all.
Looks like you agree with me that the
current scaling doesn't make sense since it has the possibility of smaller and greater infinities. If you want the greatest proof and reason for why scaling like these don't make any sense(and gets clowned on for not using set theory), then you don't need to look any further than realizing that by these standards, Toaru reaches omniversal from stacking as many infinite-sized gaps inside the Hidden World that you want, ad infinitum.
It’s just in destiny’s hands whether we run across
each other in this place where the tiniest gap extends to an infinite distance☆”
Note that this is
not what I believe, since the entire premise is flawed to begin with. While set theory prevents this problem, it also opens up a whole bunch of other issues,
so who gives a fuck tbh.
Edit:
Wait, isn't everything about magic gods banned? Hell, I'd recommend banning all entities that are universal+ and higher.
