To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - One Othinus To Rule Them All

[Paxton]

From a scan you took out context thats actually talking about Buddhism?

Or the scan that only says Niang-Niang uses Magic from Assiah but makes up for it in sheer power and technique to be more than a match for Coronzon show it means nothing regardless?

“Nephthyyys, you’re skipping a step in your explanation,” cut in Niang-Niang. “In
Japanese Buddhism, you can’t achieve enlightenment and travel to the Pure Land in a
single life, no matter how much you train. It has nothing to do with your social status. By
being reborn again and again and going through harsh training each time, you slowwwwly
polish your soul and only liberate yourself from your worldly desires in the very, very end.

That’s when you become a Buddha. Or that’s the normal route, anyway.”

“There is a way of becoming a Buddha in the limited few decades of a single life and that
is self-mummification.”

Were they saying the High Priest had performed that self-mummification ceremony and
become a Magic God?

It's literally just a way of increasing your soul level.
The thing the very Kabbalah/Four Worlds are built upon.

It's incredibly relevant to Magic Gods being limited to the surface world or not.

In other words, High Priest failed to achieve enlightenment/knowledge of Da'at/the upper 3 Sephirah after becoming a Buddha, and became stuck as a Magic God of Buddhism stuck in the surface world.

 

[Astaro]

It's literally just a way of increasing your soul level.
The thing the very Kabbalah/Four Worlds are built upon.

It's incredibly relevant to Magic Gods being limited to the surface world or not.

In other words, High Priest failed to achieve enlightenment/knowledge of Da'at/the upper 3 Sephirah after becoming a Buddha, and became stuck as a Magic God of Buddhism stuck in the surface world.

Buddhism isn’t Kabbalah. Completely different goals between the two. Nice try.

 

[Paxton]

And again, I’m arguing based on outright inferior characters interacting with all 4 Worlds just fine and Othinus herself literally deleting the whole verse (every Phase besides Hidden) that they can too. They can stay in Assiah just fine, a Magic God basically maxes out their ability in Assiah to the point of pulling off explicitly superior stuff to things that already mess with the 4 Worlds like Angel Fall

And your endless stonewalling over it

Or that as I’ve been arguing the whole time, Pure Elements of a higher world doesn’t correlate to power. Coronzon’s ultimate technique, Flaming Sword which uses Pure Light coming down from the very top of the Tree, and Othinus alone can match that power

And why are you assuming Niang-Niang’s using her best moves there? Because the above already disproves your next claim you’re going to make that Coronzon’s Pure elements will stop anything she tries despite her greatest move being only a rival to Othinus’ Gungnir

That and the fact that Niang-Niang doesn’t look the least bit concerned from seeing Pure Flames. Her reaction basically came down to. “Using Beriah huh? Neat.”



And doesn’t mean squat in the end. It’s a neat magic system for acquiring power but other Magic systems in the series work just fine at attaining the same degree of power over reality while still being in Assiah.

Literally Flaming Sword at the top of the tree, somewhere in Atziluth most likely, and Othinus alone can match it

No statements exist stating they affected the Four Worlds.


On the other hand.. we have a Magic God directly stating they can't.

 

[Paxton]

Buddhism isn’t Kabbalah. Completely different goals between the two. Nice try.

All religions in To Aru are just ways of interpreting Ein Sof.

The Sephiroth/Qliphoth is the entirety of existence emanated from it.

Wdym nice try, that's literally what the series is built off of?

 

[Paxton]

And again, I’m arguing based on outright inferior characters interacting with all 4 Worlds just fine and Othinus herself literally deleting the whole verse (every Phase besides Hidden) that they can too. They can stay in Assiah just fine, a Magic God basically maxes out their ability in Assiah to the point of pulling off explicitly superior stuff to things that already mess with the 4 Worlds like Angel Fall

And your endless stonewalling over it

Or that as I’ve been arguing the whole time, Pure Elements of a higher world doesn’t correlate to power. Coronzon’s ultimate technique, Flaming Sword which uses Pure Light coming down from the very top of the Tree, and Othinus alone can match that power

And why are you assuming Niang-Niang’s using her best moves there? Because the above already disproves your next claim you’re going to make that Coronzon’s Pure elements will stop anything she tries despite her greatest move being only a rival to Othinus’ Gungnir

That and the fact that Niang-Niang doesn’t look the least bit concerned from seeing Pure Flames. Her reaction basically came down to. “Using Beriah huh? Neat.”



And doesn’t mean squat in the end. It’s a neat magic system for acquiring power but other Magic systems in the series work just fine at attaining the same degree of power over reality while still being in Assiah.

Literally Flaming Sword at the top of the tree, somewhere in Atziluth most likely, and Othinus alone can match it

It's not an entire "system" of magic, it's literally the backdrop of the entire cosmology.

 

[Astaro]

Muh 4 World Hierarchy!! Muh 4 Worlds Hierarchy!! Muh 4 Worlds Hiearchy!!! Muh Surface Worlld only Magic Gods!! RRREEE!!

I swear it’s like taking to a wall. Seems like no matter how many times a Beriah-Atziluth level character holds an L to a nerfed Magic God in a fight or how Othinus, the weakest Magic God can match an attack from the literal highest top of the tree, nothing will convince you to do anything but make endless excuses

 

[Paxton]

It was a diagram with ten levels that divided up the positions of humans, angels, and God.

"Whatever. Anyways, the Sephirothic Tree depicts the spiritual rank of God, angels, and humans on a hierarchical diagram. To put it simply, humans can climb up the ranks by training, but at some point, anything past that is unattainable."
"...You're treating me like an idiot, aren't you? What are you trying to say?"
"Is your pride hurt? What I'm trying to say is that there is a height that humans cannot reach, no matter how hard they try.
However, human nature is to want to reach it anyway. Magicians exist precisely because of that. So what should we do?"

"The Sephirothic Tree is basically a ranking chart. It has the ranking of the souls of God, angels, and humans graded on a ten-step pyramid. Just think of it like that."
"To put it bluntly, it's like a map of God's absolute reign that basically says that this territory is for humans and this territory is for God-so don't go coming in all willy-nilly."
"The number of people and the number of angels are all decided beforehand, so normally, a human cannot climb to the status of angel. It goes both ways; an angel also cannot fall to the level of a human."
"Basically, all the ranks are filled to capacity."

The Sephirothic tree and raising your soul level is the fundamental goal of all magicians.

 

[Astaro]

And Magic Gods show it’s not the be-all end all to pull of Atziluth level stuff

Flexible Magic system meant for anyone be like that

 

[Paxton]

Muh 4 World Hierarchy!! Muh 4 Worlds Hierarchy!! Muh 4 Worlds Hiearchy!!! Muh Surface Worlld only Magic Gods!! RRREEE!!

I swear it’s like taking to a wall. Seems like no matter how many times a Beriah-Atziluth level character holds an L to a nerfed Magic God in a fight or how Othinus, the weakest Magic God can match an attack from the literal highest top of the tree, nothing will convince you to do anything but make endless excuses

Ironic from the one who thinks Magic Gods destroyed the Pure World yet they can't create another tree, or survive existence going ka-put after Coronzon's ceremony destroys them.

 

[Paxton]

And Magic Gods show it’s not the be-all end all to pull of Atziluth level stuff

Flexible Magic system meant for anyone be like that

They don't show anything remotely suggesting the case.

Magic Gods don't tank pure elements or Flaming;Sword.

 

[Paxton]

The only reason Magic Gods are so strong is BECAUSE they cheated their way and took one step into Keter despite remaining "human" and being stuck at the surface world.

And even that has its limitations, because they didn't do so the proper way.

 

[Paxton]

If To Aru's magic system is so flexible why can't you admit there are things Magic Gods can't do because they lack the actual skill/knowledge/power to do so?

 

[Astaro]

Ironic from the one who thinks Magic Gods destroyed the Pure World yet they can't create another tree, or survive existence going ka-put after Coronzon's ceremony destroys them.

Coronzon herself (weaker than full power Magic Gods) wondered if it would succeed in killing her or not. Probably why one of the reasons she became more active in general was after the Magic Gods were both removed from Hidden Phase and explicitly stripped of their immortality and hugely nerfed first

They don't show anything remotely suggesting the case.

Magic Gods don't tank pure elements or Flaming;Sword.

They tank their own attacks from constantly fighting in the Hidden World at their full power, that’s plenty to argue Pure Elements weaker than Othinus Gungnir aren’t doing anything to them.

Othinus matching Flaming Sword (Atziluth at least just based on it being at the top of the tree) says otherwise

 

[Astaro]

The only reason Magic Gods are so strong is BECAUSE they cheated their way and took one step into Keter despite remaining "human" and being stuck at the surface world.

And even that has its limitations, because they didn't do so the proper way.

If To Aru's magic system is so flexible why can't you admit there are things Magic Gods can't do because they lack the actual skill/knowledge/power to do so?

Doesn’t matter because these limitations never amount to anything worth mentioning and let’s not even get started with whose got the better feats and command over realty

Or just the fact that even Atziluth level beings like Coronzon can barely hold their own fighting nerfed Magic Gods?

 

[Paxton]

Coronzon herself (weaker than full power Magic Gods) wondered if it would succeed in killing her or not. Probably why one of the reasons she became more active in general was after the Magic Gods were both removed from Hidden Phase and explicitly stripped of their immortality and hugely nerfed first


They tank their own attacks from constantly fighting in the Hidden World at their full power, that’s plenty to argue Pure Elements weaker than Othinus Gungnir aren’t doing anything to them.

Othinus matching Flaming Sword (Atziluth at least just based on it being at the top of the tree) says otherwise

Coronzon nerfs herself to act in the surface world just as they do though.

If Coronzon in the Abyss were weaker than Magic Gods than they would've already crossed the Abyss, but they didn't.


Basic scaling that you literally agree with already puts nerfed true Gremlin and Coronzon above Othinus though?

wdym?

 

[Astaro]

Face it Pax, Full Power True Gremlin shits on the rest of the verse still.

And will continue to do so as long as the most the next threat gets compared to is Othinus or some other character like Crowley or Coronzon who themselves can only barely deal with hugely nerfed Magic Gods

 

[Paxton]

full power true Gremlin are the top of the verse despite positions being above them existing and characters being stated to be stronger than them

lmao

 

[Paxton]

I'll believe in true Gremlin beating the rest of the verse when they can kill St. Germain

or JVA

or full power Aiwass

or Ein Sof

 

[Astaro]

Coronzon nerfs herself to act in the surface world just as they do though.

If Coronzon in the Abyss were weaker than Magic Gods than they would've already crossed the Abyss, but they didn't.


Basic scaling that you literally agree with already puts nerfed true Gremlin and Coronzon above Othinus though?

wdym?

Bullshit

"Don't make me laugh. You are no more than exposed energy without an avatar. That much is clear from the fact that you borrowed his wife's body when giving him the Book of the Law. Just like me, you should only be able to wield your full power when you possess an avatar.

Surface world with a physics body = being able to use her full power she has wields while in the Abyss

 

[Paxton]

Bullshit



Surface world with a physics body = being able to use her full power she has wields while in the Abyss

The full power she can manifest in the surface world, you mean?