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Game Ranked Wrestling Wars Mafia

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Ekkologix said:
if u town read ultra u can see he is at least trying to start somewhere there is no reason for ur posts being this unhelpful
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Not at all, I town read him because he is not so brazen to get into this kind of discussion without a better angle, and because you only need to see certain elements of behaviour to get a good idea of his alignment. It's enough for Day 1.
Ultra said:
The observation that you have spent most of your real estate either bickering with Ekko or aggressively defending your non-contributions is supported, I don't really feel the need to pull up quotes or anything at this point.
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Uh oh, let's not forget the original point now! I take you back to the idea that there is one scum in Gram/me, especially of Flower/Ekko are town, you still remember having made that yes? You're having trouble remaining on point. I haven't contested spending a large number of posts on you and Ekko and this delightful interaction. That has nothing to do with the observations that were actually being refrenced.
Ultra said:
The disservice is that you're not applying 10% of the effort here in any other facet of the game so far, which would be much more instrumental than whatever this is.
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Your opinion is duly noted.
 
Ratchet said:
Well, certainly not one that requires me to care about any of those arrow points beyond how it helps me read you. Look - lean town. It really is that easy.
Well, for one, it serves as a defence before I invariably get accused of "ducking dialogue" or whatever stupid idea comes up next. You have, again, failed to establish exactly how my relation towards Flower and Ekko makes me appear scummy in the event that they are both town, aside from being a little wrong on Ekko (I did say "conflicted") and... being right on Flower(?) - I think I've made this point several times over by now.
Oh no, anything but default scum reading me. No engagement- really? Even you don't believe the hogwash you're coming out with now.
There is no "lid blowing". I am perfectly calm. Tired, maybe, but calm. I'm not emotionally invested in this discussion. In fact, I'd wager you are more so than I.
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If you have spent most of your stock interacting with two players (well, 3, I guess, if you include me) and they are all town, and the sum of those engagements did not help advance the gamestate positively, it is fair game to scum read you. I don't know if you're merely pretending not to grasp this or not, but the way mafia works is that from a statistical standpoint my "lazy" position you're taking issue with is almost self evident. It's not definitive proof, but it's an indicator. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with a core aspect of the game.
 
Ekkologix said:
Again my issue is toward your destructive rather than constructive attitude towards town's momentum, and its not necessarily scummy but its not really townie either
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What you mean by "town's momentum" is really just "my (Ekko's) way of doing things". Which um, I suppose I will just have to live with that terribly destructive attitude.
Ekkologix said:
if your read of gram is around null area these posts don't make sense even more
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They nake sense completely independent of any read I have on Gram - a town read plays no part in anything I've said. I don't have a read on Gram, to be clear - Null.
 
Similarly, I am more likely to come to the conclusion that you're "farming" Ekko and not just reluctantly engaging with him depending on your relationship with other players and contributions to the thread which would dilute that aspect of your play. As it stands it comprises a significant component, so if that's all I have to go by and it has been all-for-nothing it takes less assumptions to assume an experienced player is doing something that conveniences him as scum than it does to assume it's a mistake.
 
Ultra said:
If you have spent most of your stock interacting with two players (well, 3, I guess, if you include me) and they are all town, and the sum of those engagements did not help advance the gamestate positively, it is fair game to scum read you. I don't know if you're merely pretending not to grasp this or not, but the way mafia works is that from a statistical standpoint my "lazy" position you're taking issue with is almost self evident. It's not definitive proof, but it's an indicator. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with a core aspect of the game.
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It's pretty funny you complain about my belligerence and then presume to explain Mafia to me. Are you going to continue to grandstand about how unreasonable I'm being despite very flagrantly approaching this in an deconstructive manner? Of course you will.

None of this is about whether I'm scum read here or not - it's about the reasoning that underpins it. If your argument here is to rely on statistics around the likelihood of Mafia clashing with town versus town clashing with town, then it appears you're ignorant of a very basic tenent of Mafia yourself - that probability is a poor tool to solve.
 
Ultra said:
Similarly, I am more likely to come to the conclusion that you're "farming" Ekko and not just reluctantly engaging with him depending on your relationship with other players and contributions to the thread which would dilute that aspect of your play. As it stands it comprises a significant component, so if that's all I have to go by and it has been all-for-nothing it takes less assumptions to assume an experienced player is doing something that conveniences him as scum than it does to assume it's a mistake.
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False dichotomy. It doesn't have to be scum or mistake.
 
Ratchet said:
It's pretty funny you complain about my belligerence and then presume to explain Mafia to me. Are you going to continue to grandstand about how unreasonable I'm being despite very flagrantly approaching this in an deconstructive manner? Of course you will.

None of this is about whether I'm scum read here or not - it's about the reasoning that underpins it. If your argument here is to rely on statistics around the likelihood of Mafia clashing with town versus town clashing with town, then it appears you're ignorant of a very basic tenent of Mafia yourself - that probability is a poor tool to solve.
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I'm not presuming but clearly something is lost in translation here.

When I mean probability, I'm talking along the lines of Bayesian Thinking. Which is pretty subjective, but pretty much every piece of information short of mod confirms in mafia is subject to interpretation so...disagree?
 
Ratchet said:
Not at all, I town read him because he is not so brazen to get into this kind of discussion without a better angle, and because you only need to see certain elements of behaviour to get a good idea of his alignment. It's enough for Day 1.
Uh oh, let's not forget the original point now! I take you back to the idea that there is one scum in Gram/me, especially of Flower/Ekko are town, you still remember having made that yes? You're having trouble remaining on point. I haven't contested spending a large number of posts on you and Ekko and this delightful interaction. That has nothing to do with the observations that were actually being refrenced.
Your opinion is duly noted.
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so ur just being unhelpful for the sake of it lol?
I'm giving you the thread. if u r unhappy with our direction feel free to start one? you being on the defensive is never going to be good look, even if the cases were thrown against you are weak, which they obviously will be its a semi dead day 1, and u at this point would have taken enough measures to hold safe positions anyway, or none at all that can lead to a strong case being made. the strongest case is always going to be the lack of drive here. the rest is just confirmation bias to follow that case.

Ratchet said:
What you mean by "town's momentum" is really just "my (Ekko's) way of doing things". Which um, I suppose I will just have to live with that terribly destructive attitude.
They nake sense completely independent of any read I have on Gram - a town read plays no part in anything I've said. I don't have a read on Gram, to be clear - Null.
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no town momentum is town momentum. i don't control the lynch. town does. do you have any momentum right now? no. you are being negative towards formation of movement rn, right or wrong.

you have null on gram and said he can very well be scum. just let ultra have his take and see how gram reacts to it? like why r u been this anti momentum. if you disagree with ultra's reasonings on u that's fine. the reasonings could apply to gram. at least mine did.

its the same with your "joke" post in page 2 which I still find forced and it would have been a lot better if you waited for me to continue flavor talking first before latching onto it, which btw your contributions today had been lackluster outside of that latch and discussing flowa's claim and the mason - both which r mechanic/easy content based over gameplay based
 
Ratchet said:
I'm sure you've got good reasons to establish why I'm linked to Gram on this-

Ah, wait, of course you don't. Silly me. This is why there is no reason to engage with you. You're approaching the whole thing in bad faith, and when you receive an answer that satisfies what you originally asked, you alter your line of questioning to appear to press the upper hand. I don't know why you think it works, it doesn't, but you try anyway.

And because I already know how you'll try to spin this, no it's not a defence of Gram. He could well flip scum. It won't be because you arbitrarily decided to put him and I together and decreed that there must be 1 scum between us for "phoning it in".
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The way you describe Ultras play, I'd be surprised if he wasn't your top scum read. Is he?
 
Day 1 Vote Count

Ekkologix (4) - Ratchet, Gramma, CP, PHEN0M
Doddsy (1) - Tiara
Tweet (2) - Evans
Evans (3) - BPD, Tweet
RDK (2) - Tpein, Ultra

You have 18 hours remaining.

I’ve flown through the thread to cobble this together so apologies if anything was missed​
 
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Ultra said:
By his own admission, he's not. Ratchet-Bot takes issue with the baked-in assumptions about what constitutes good/bad behavior and the invisible rules of mutual conduct us *Humans* brutally impose upon his kind.
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i think he just hasnt drank his tea yet
 
Poyser said:
Day 1 Vote Count

Ekkologix (4) - Ratchet, Gramma, CP, PHEN0M
Doddsy (1) - Tiara
Tweet (2) - Evans
Evans (4) - Ultra, BPD, Tweet
RDK (2) - Tpein, Ultra

You have 18 hours remaining.

I’ve flown through the thread to cobble this together so apologies if anything was missed​
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is this correct? someone on evans has extra vote power?

also evans DV confirmed
 
Poyser said:
Day 1 Vote Count

Ekkologix (4) - Ratchet, Gramma, CP, PHEN0M
Doddsy (1) - Tiara
Tweet (2) - Evans
Evans (4) - Ultra, BPD, Tweet
RDK (2) - Tpein, Ultra

You have 18 hours remaining.

I’ve flown through the thread to cobble this together so apologies if anything was missed​
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DenshaDeD_ch01p16-17.png
 
Ultra said:
I'm not presuming but clearly something is lost in translation here.
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You know exactly what you were implying, no need to shy away from your condescension. I happily own mine, nobody likes a hypocrite, Ultra.
Ultra said:
When I mean probability, I'm talking along the lines of Bayesian Thinking. Which is pretty subjective, but pretty much every piece of information short of mod confirms in mafia is subject to interpretation so...disagree?
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You can name drop schools of thought all you like, it doesn't make it more compelling. There are several good reasons why probability doesn't work very well, the largest one being the human element in games.
Ekkologix said:
just let ultra have his take and see how gram reacts to it?
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Why shouldn't I be reacting to it, given that it also concerns me?
Hans Tweetenberg said:
The way you describe Ultras play, I'd be surprised if he wasn't your top scum read. Is he?
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I've said, repeatedly, lean town. I feel like the phrasing of your question means you are already aware of this, too.
Ekkologix said:
so the takeaway here is you want us to accept you as being lazy townie. why do we do that?
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I don't think I said that at all.
 
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