Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

[CrossTheHorizon]

More to the original point of this, Touma isn't "negating" the Servants on contact because of the Rule Breaker stuff and his own limitations, he is hilariously out of his league in terms of physical stats, and tbh most of the Servant would probably kill him just by stepping on the ground really hard next to him

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

And I have once again been suckered into actually debating To Aru. Insert Doofensmirtz nickel meme here, and there had better not be a third time dammit

 

[Paxton]

Yeah, gonna need to stop you there and bring you up to speed on the current To Aru situation here.

Long story short, To Aru is basically capped at universal in how we regard it.

Long story long, the guy who pushed this series before you had......issues, explaining its cosmology. Along with there being a quote from the writer that there was only one universe, and nothing on the size of the Phases, it basically means that as far as we can tell there is a single universe with an unknown number of pocket dimensions inside of it. Even if an entity could potentially take out all of it at once......that makes it universal at most.

This series has baggage like you wouldn't believe on the OBD, and if you want to argue for anything beyond that you're going to have to make a meta thread and bring the receipts.

I've seen the discussion.
Kamachi mentioning how there's only "one universe" only meant that no parallel worlds existed. No alternate Toumas are running amok.
Othinus creating multiple Phases one after another that are specifically slightly altered versions of the universe would only be universal, sure, but destroying all of them at once only being universal? Not sure about that. The Phases that Othinus created and subsequently destroyed all at once were all universal in size. They're even described as having distance between them.

I'm well aware.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

On a somewhat related note, this particular quote really fucking confuses me.


Like, it's comparing Othinus and Thor (whose ability involves the planet shifting around to let him dodge/get into range for attacks), and saying that he rules "one world" while Othinus creates "infinite worlds", but the latter can't be referring to just an infinite amount of planets because Magic Gods should be far beyond that.

Really not sure what to make of this.

Yeah, that's why I find this stuff so confusing because it's just more insanity and wondering if they mean 1 planet or 1 universe... except there is just one Universe in To Aru and then there are Phases and AAAARGGGHHH...

I've seen the discussion.
Kamachi mentioning how there's only "one universe" only meant that no parallel worlds existed. No alternate Toumas are running amok.
Othinus creating multiple Phases one after another that are specifically slightly altered versions of the universe would only be universal, sure, but destroying all of them at once only being universal? Not sure about that. The Phases that Othinus created and subsequently destroyed all at once were all universal in size. They're even described as having distance between them.

I'm well aware.

So it's supposed to be parallel universes without being parallel universes?
The fuck is even the point then?

 

[Paxton]

More to the original point of this, Touma isn't "negating" the Servants on contact because of the Rule Breaker stuff and his own limitations, he is hilariously out of his league in terms of physical stats, and tbh most of the Servant would probably kill him just by stepping on the ground really hard next to him

Though to be fair, even if he wouldn't negate them, why wouldn't they just get BFR'd back to the Throne of Heroes like Gabriel did when he got sent to the Heaven Phase? It's a similar enough situation I'd say.

 

[Paxton]

Yeah, that's why I find this stuff so confusing because it's just more insanity and wondering if they mean 1 planet or 1 universe... except there is just one Universe in To Aru and then there are Phases and AAAARGGGHHH...



So it's supposed to be parallel universes without being parallel universes?
The fuck is even the point then?

I wouldn't say they're "parallel" necessary.
They're really just (universal) layers on TOP of each other like a pancake, rather than the standard "collection of marbles" that most multiverses are. Kind of like the Abyss in D&D now that I think about it.
I think it's been brought up before, but it's really like this:
There's the physical universe created by the Big Bang, with normal physics and junk. And THEN there are Phases created by magic/human belief. That's really it. (And the metaphysical trees but that's a whole other mess)

Not quite sure to be honest, but I think Mr.OMG might have a better answer than I.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Though to be fair, even if he wouldn't negate them, why wouldn't they just get BFR'd back to the Throne of Heroes like Gabriel did when he got sent to the Heaven Phase? It's a similar enough situation I'd say.

Because Servants constantly have to go through that with the Nasuverse Planet:

Even having a full supply will not help a Servant should they lose their anchor to the world with the loss of their Master, so they must quickly seek out another contract. While normally not much of a burden, their energy noticeably drains by the second without one. Depending on the amount of energy and upkeep cost, they may only be able to stay materialized for a brief time. Artoria Pendragon can manage only two hours, while Medea can last two days with a full supply of energy. Those with Independent Action are able to subside without Master support far longer than others, allowing them a better chance to seek out another contract. Much like the class container, their anchor is a "passport to the current age", so losing that will mean being forced to return to the "outside." They cannot form proper contracts with other Servants, as spirits cannot link spirits to the World. Medea is able to summon Sasaki Kojirou, but it is an improper summoning with several complications; rather than her being his anchor, it is the mountain gate, so Assassin cannot leave the area. Without a Master, they are no different than regular spirits and may be affected by the Church's scripture.

And the Earth there is really... REALLY powerful so being able to stay around despite that is pretty ridiculous all things considered.

 

[Paxton]

Yeah, gonna need to stop you there and bring you up to speed on the current To Aru situation here.

Long story short, To Aru is basically capped at universal in how we regard it.

Long story long, the guy who pushed this series before you had......issues, explaining its cosmology. Along with there being a quote from the writer that there was only one universe, and nothing on the size of the Phases, it basically means that as far as we can tell there is a single universe with an unknown number of pocket dimensions inside of it. Even if an entity could potentially take out all of it at once......that makes it universal at most.

This series has baggage like you wouldn't believe on the OBD, and if you want to argue for anything beyond that you're going to have to make a meta thread and bring the receipts.

You wouldn't happen to be talking about Rev by the way?

 

[Vespa Crabro]

Something something the wafers of semiconductors lead into the reality that phases aren't truly phases

they are simply phases in unphases

A step isn't a step without stepping into being a step

 

[Paxton]

Something something the wafers of semiconductors lead into the reality that phases aren't truly phases

they are simply phases in unphases

A step isn't a step without stepping into being a step

I know memeing on Kamachi for his occasional bad science is funny, but it really isn't THAT complicated.

 

[Vespa Crabro]

I couldn’t care less tbh

I’m gonna make fun of it until the end of time

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Though to be fair, even if he wouldn't negate them, why wouldn't they just get BFR'd back to the Throne of Heroes like Gabriel did when he got sent to the Heaven Phase? It's a similar enough situation I'd say.

Because something that can perform a similar effect wasn't enough to do it.

Also that's not how that works. It's another of those massive Nasu lore dumps but the Servants don't come from the Throne, they're "copied". The version in the war only exists for that war, it's not the real one.

Except for Arturia because of another even more confusing chunk of lore. She's not even really a Servant except she is except she isn't

 

[Paxton]

Because Servants constantly have to go through that with the Nasuverse Planet:


And the Earth there is really... REALLY powerful so being able to stay around despite that is pretty ridiculous all things considered.

Where would you put the Earth in Nasuverse in terms of strength anyway? Not that I think it's particularly relevant when comparing it to Gabriel and resisting the BFR, but it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Yeah, gonna need to stop you there and bring you up to speed on the current To Aru situation here.

Long story short, To Aru is basically capped at universal in how we regard it.

Long story long, the guy who pushed this series before you had......issues, explaining its cosmology. Along with there being a quote from the writer that there was only one universe, and nothing on the size of the Phases, it basically means that as far as we can tell there is a single universe with an unknown number of pocket dimensions inside of it. Even if an entity could potentially take out all of it at once......that makes it universal at most.

This series has baggage like you wouldn't believe on the OBD, and if you want to argue for anything beyond that you're going to have to make a meta thread and bring the receipts.

It's much more complicated than that, the Phased Beings are beyond the history of humanity, the hierarchy of the worlds of the Sephiroth Tree. It's very complicated there.

At the end of the world, God would descend down to the mortal world and decide everyone's fate, whether they were going to heaven or to hell. If a person who shouldn't be killed was dead, his children wouldn't be born. If that happened, his grandchildren and great-grandchildren wouldn't be born. That was why those who could control time and space were those supremacists who could control history. The angels who escaped from the history of humanity also had the power to change humanity's future.

The supremacists.

"I will now explain what will soon happen here." The lady in a red leotard and long skirt made it sound so simple. "First of all, Coronzon will place the Queen Britannia's mobile temple at a specific point and attempt to hijack the United Kingdom using the Scottish system she can access with the three Honours of Scotland and the Stone of Scone. Her goal is to destroy the world. In the first stage, she will have all seven billion humans kill each other and she will use that as an opening to descend to the very bottom of the Sephiroth. Once at the very foundation of the world, she will pour in a massive amount of power to forcibly destroy it. All of the phases overlap, but the gods of legend are not supported by that alone. Heaven and hell cannot exist entirely independently, so if the piece at the base is destroyed, the bottom will fall out."

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

I've seen the discussion.
Kamachi mentioning how there's only "one universe" only meant that no parallel worlds existed. No alternate Toumas are running amok.
Othinus creating multiple Phases one after another that are specifically slightly altered versions of the universe would only be universal, sure, but destroying all of them at once only being universal? Not sure about that. The Phases that Othinus created and subsequently destroyed all at once were all universal in size. They're even described as having distance between them.

I'm well aware.

Yeah, again, you're going to need to make a meta thread and actually defend that with quotes and such if you want it to stand.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Where would you put the Earth in Nasuverse in terms of strength anyway? Not that I think it's particularly relevant when comparing it to Gabriel and resisting the BFR, but it wouldn't hurt.

It depends on how far you see it. Large Planetary+ at minimum due to how it's created and maintained... but considering it has created beings well above that(Like Arcueid, True Ancestors and their other brethern, Fairies, Excalibur, Rhongomyniad and other shit), you can easily place the Planet and it's overall energy at either Solar System+ to even Galaxy at max and wouldn't miss a beat at all.

But you could easily put it at Solar System+ though which is where I would keep it myself but that's due to the Lostbelts of FGO.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Where would you put the Earth in Nasuverse in terms of strength anyway? Not that I think it's particularly relevant when comparing it to Gabriel and resisting the BFR, but it wouldn't hurt.

Uh

Multiversal?

It can sustain multiple universe sized dimensions by itself while also managing a large (but not limitless) number of parallel timelines.

 

[Paxton]

Because something that can perform a similar effect wasn't enough to do it.

Also that's not how that works. It's another of those massive Nasu lore dumps but the Servants don't come from the Throne, they're "copied". The version in the war only exists for that war, it's not the real one.

Except for Arturia because of another even more confusing chunk of lore. She's not even really a Servant except she is except she isn't

Alright.
Good to know.



I wonder how nonsensical a Nasu/Kamachi crossover would be now that I think about it...

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Uh

Multiversal?

It can sustain multiple universe sized dimensions by itself while also managing a large (but not limitless) number of parallel timelines.

I actually forgot about that too LMFAO
@Paxton You can include this too as yeah, Nasuverse Earth also has to host a large number of parallel timelines as well(virtually limitless but technically not so... long story).

 

[Paxton]

Yeah, again, you're going to need to make a meta thread and actually defend that with quotes and such if you want it to stand.

Fair enough, although I think Mr.OMG and Goldenboy are doing that anyway.