• We are currently rolling out incremental alterations to the forum. Don't freak! You aren't going crazy.

Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 1: OBD 2027 prologue edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr.OMG

Paramount
I thought Touma was closer to Shirou Emiya but holy fuck, that sounds like a walking sociopath and yeah, he wouldn't last long at all in the Grand Order.
In fact, Touma is more like Kirei Kotomine than Shiro. The only global difference between Kirei Kotomine and Kamijou Touma is that one takes pleasure in other people's suffering, while the other takes pleasure when other people are happy. But they are basically the same people. And yes, it was also said that if Othinus or someone close to him dies, Touma will turn into a monster, in short he is also a ticking time bomb. Well, that's why Touma is an interesting character.
 
In fact, Touma is more like Kirei Kotomine than Shiro. The only global difference between Kirei Kotomine and Kamijou Touma is that one takes pleasure in other people's suffering, while the other takes pleasure when other people are happy. But they are basically the same people. And yes, it was also said that if Othinus or someone close to him dies, Touma will turn into a monster, in short he is also a ticking time bomb. Well, that's why Touma is an interesting character.

Actually he wouldn't even be comparable to Kirei Kotomine as the huge difference is the fact that Kirei still has a conscience. He was absolutely born to do evil things and enjoy suffering... but he also was given a conscience so he can't even ENJOY it without feeling like absolute scum after the fact.
Basically the way you put it, Touma is basically a sociopath who comes off like a good guy because "it's the right thing to do" and that's what makes him "happy" meanwhile Kotomine is a sociopath who can't even indulge in good or bad because while he was born to do evil shit, he has the conscience to know he's a piece of shit and can't enjoy it.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Like I never genuinely thought he would be a shit heel like that. Yeah, any Servant would be able to see through that who are very empathic unless they are Anti-Heroes themselves.
I.e this is something shown as far back the second volume. It's pretty clear that Touma's dealing with some major Imposter Symdrome due to him trying to live up to his past self.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
Actually he wouldn't even be comparable to Kirei Kotomine as the huge difference is the fact that Kirei still has a conscience. He was absolutely born to do evil things and enjoy suffering... but he also was given a conscience so he can't even ENJOY it without feeling like absolute scum after the fact.
Basically the way you put it, Touma is basically a sociopath who comes off like a good guy because "it's the right thing to do" and that's what makes him "happy" meanwhile Kotomine is a sociopath who can't even indulge in good or bad because while he was born to do evil shit, he has the conscience to know he's a piece of shit and can't enjoy it.
Some more interesting facts, one character can use science to make people fall in love with her or control the level of affection, but this won't work on Touma, but not because of IB, but only because Touma is willing to beat up the person closest to him if he sees fit. Well, he once beat up a 12-year-old girl, and almost beat up a pregnant woman, but he couldn't because of the situation.
 
Some more interesting facts, one character can use science to make people fall in love with her or control the level of affection, but this won't work on Touma, but not because of IB, but only because Touma is willing to beat up the person closest to him if he sees fit. Well, he once beat up a 12-year-old girl, and almost beat up a pregnant woman, but he couldn't because of the situation.

Jesus man, I can see why you can like him as a multi-faceted character but dude... jesus, he's giving EMIYA Alter a run for his money.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Basically the way you put it, Touma is basically a sociopath who comes off like a good guy because "it's the right thing to do" and that's what makes him "happy"
Well, I wouldn't go that far. Touma despite his flaws and losing his memories is still an inherently good person. If he wasn't he wouldn't have pretended to not have lost his memories to Index in the epilogue of vol 1.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
How many "Toumas" are there anyway again? Isn't it just pre-Index amnesia Touma and post-Index amnesia Touma (aka current Touma)?
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
Well, I wouldn't go that far. Touma despite his flaws and losing his memories is still an inherently good person. If he wasn't he wouldn't have pretended to not have lost his memories to Index in the epilogue of vol 1.
He didn't show that he lost his memory because he didn't want Index to be sad. Well, you can't consider him a good person or an evil one either, Aiwass explicitly said that Touma doesn't think by such concepts as good and evil, but by his own criteria, just his actions correlate with good, but he only seems to be a good person. This is actually quite an interesting topic of conversation, whether Touma can be considered a good person in spite of the fact that he only does what he likes. There's a difference between "doing a good deed because it's good, and doing a good deed because you like it."
 
Touma should try catching these child's hands
xaJTAoZ.gif
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
He didn't show that he lost his memory because he didn't want Index to be sad. Well, you can't consider him a good person or an evil one either, Aiwass explicitly said that Touma doesn't think by such concepts as good and evil, but by his own criteria, just his actions correlate with good, but he only seems to be a good person. This is actually quite an interesting topic of conversation, whether Touma can be considered a good person in spite of the fact that he only does what he likes. There's a difference between "doing a good deed because it's good, and doing a good deed because you like it."
Well that's some high iq philosophy that I can't come up with an answer to. Also probably shouldn't be in this thread.
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
and almost beat up a pregnant woman, but he couldn't because of the situation.
Do you mean Freyja? In that case, I wish to specify that he technically was fighting the Fetus that just so happened to use her mother as biological mecha.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
Do you mean Freyja? In that case, I wish to specify that he technically was fighting the Fetus that just so happened to use her mother as biological mecha.
Well yes, at first he didn't know that, there was even a line about how even though she was pregnant Touma should stop her, but then he realized that it was all the baby's fault inside her.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Some more interesting facts, one character can use science to make people fall in love with her or control the level of affection, but this won't work on Touma, but not because of IB, but only because Touma is willing to beat up the person closest to him if he sees fit. Well, he once beat up a 12-year-old girl, and almost beat up a pregnant woman, but he couldn't because of the situation.
Which one was the 12 year old? The pregnant woman Freyja was where he drew the line in fighting. Half the problem of his fight with her was that he couldn’t bring himself to hit her back and the most he did was trip her while making sure she landed on her back to avoid harming the baby.


Kamijou had to climb up onto the roof in that time, but it was still not enough. With her vision still blocked, Freyja purposefully dropped the jewel in her hand.

And she gave the incantation.

“Cost 1. White. Call / / Muninn.”

(I don’t have time to hesitate!!)

Kamijou faltered because his opponent was pregnant. He was quite hesitant. However, hesitating here would mean his death and Freyja would continue to use the baby inside her for her own purposes. If her shocking statement about two years having passed was true, he could not leave this be. Japan’s laws seemed to not give a fetus human rights as long as it was inside the womb, but he felt those laws could eat shit.

He would bet on the possibility of saving that child no matter how slim it was.

(Sorry!!)

While apologizing to the baby rather than Freyja and supporting himself with one hand, Kamijou swept his other hand along the roof. While Freyja struggled nervously with her vision cut off, he swept her feet out from under her from behind. Kamijou was considerate enough to have her collapse onto her back rather than her stomach. He had no way of knowing how dangerous an act it was either way, though.

“Kh!!”

Before checking to make sure Freyja had fallen to her butt, Kamijou climbed up onto the train’s roof.

It got to the point where he needed the help of Misaka and Index in beating her without harming her at all.

Also your seriously exaggerating Touma. He’s not mindless in his goals and has a conscience. He just prioritizes the safety of others over himself in conflicts to an insane degree and is willing to be a hypocrite that contradicts themselves so long as it leads to an outcome where the situation is resolved for everyone.


In fact, Touma is more like Kirei Kotomine than Shiro. The only global difference between Kirei Kotomine and Kamijou Touma is that one takes pleasure in other people's suffering, while the other takes pleasure when other people are happy. But they are basically the same people. And yes, it was also said that if Othinus or someone close to him dies, Touma will turn into a monster, in short he is also a ticking time bomb. Well, that's why Touma is an interesting character.
We saw how he took Othinus’ “death”: disappointed in how he couldn’t save her. Why wouldnt he after all the shit he went through? But decided it was best to just move on and not dwell on it. He didn’t become a monster that would take it out on the rest of the world.

Should also be worth mentioning he doesn’t mind if Othinus was punished for her actions and even believed she should be. Even if it meant being locked up for life. Just as long as she was judged fairly over being hunted down and tortured like the rest of the world wanted to do.
 
Last edited:

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Touma is more like Kirei Kotomine than Shiro.
Eh, Touma, Kirei, and Shirou are mostly cut from the same cloth.

The difference is that Kirei, Shirou and Touma are looking through different perspectives.

As @Xhominid The Fool said Kirei still has a conscious despite feeling pleasure from doing evil, which is why he can feel like shit after doing evil shit.

Shirou's hero complex comes from him trying to feel the happiness he saw in kiritsugu when he saved him.

At the end of the day just like Touma there desires to do good and evil are done out selfishness.

It's just that Touma doesn't have a desire to do evil, nor wants to find happiness in saving people.

So in fact Touma's desire to save people may be the 'purest' because while selfish, it isn't done out of some other desire but because he wants to.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top