Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/one-piece-vs-fate.1157821/page-2?post=100710679#post-100710679

The problem is that she wasn't fighting alone, she had the other servants with her and Holmes,

Holmes... literally couldn't fight in LB5.2, all he did was give Musashi something to help her see an attack coming and otherwise stayed in the background... that's the LAST PLACE you can be to help someone who can move as fast as Light.
Besides, how the hell is having more people be helpful against someone whose faster than everyone else combined casually? Did this person watch Stone Ocean? Because that damn sure didn't help anyone against Pucci with Made in Heaven.

who got mentioned that was distracting the servants wit his light and was shown able to buff musashi to react to Dioscuri attack in their first encounter

No? All Holmes did was give Musashi a Magecraft spell to help her see Castor's extremely quick instant kill attack coming towards Mash:

This ignores that afterwards, Musashi was dealing with both Castor AND Pollux attacking her at the same time, something that a simple support spell wouldn't be able to accomplish against TWO Lightspeed users(Unless you believe Nasuverse Mages have easy access to precognition granting spells... which just makes the downplay towards the franchise more retarded).

I also though she had a buff too using one poseidon cores and her trident?

Why would that matter when it comes to the SPEED of the opposite opponent who can move as fast as Light?

Not too sure about that one, might be misremembering. Nanomachines are a fairly decent buff considering Charlotte was able to go from not beating a single regular beast to one shotting the Cerberus that was giving a bunch of problems to a team of servants.

That was due to the Zeus Klironmia going full blast and all that did was cause the Demeter Klironmia to go haywire and kill the Cerebus... and that was going to kill Charlotte because she isn't Divinity while Lostbelt Chiron, the man who could barely handle a dying Achilles, could use at full blast with no side effects.

I mean it's possible. He does use it if he really needs it like with the Grail but it's a thing he doesn't just use it on anyone without him having some respect for them.

That's not actually true...
Yes, Gilgamesh does not like drawing out Ea against anyone... but it's not that hard to gain Gilgamesh's "respect" for him to use it on you. Hell, the UBW anime had Gilgamesh literally pull out Ea just to grandstand that the "Faker"(Shirou) can't copy it and how below him he is. Again, Nasu allowed that to happen and we know he has vetoing power if he really doesn't want it to happen.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/one-piece-vs-fate.1157821/page-2?post=100711324#post-100711324

that's about PHH Caenis.
This Caenis is buffed and could definitely be stronger than those two.

Ignoring that IS PHH Caenis... It's not a Lostbelt version, that really is the Proper Human History version, there is no Lostbelt version of Caenis(Considering how long ago the Olympiamachia was and Poseidon became brainwashed, there would be no way for him to do any of the deeds that would lead to Caenis becoming who she is later on).

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/one-piece-vs-fate.1157821/page-2?post=100711639#post-100711639

Super Orion was conceptually advantaged to do more damage against Caenis as Poseiden's son.

Super Orion could literally do no more than scratch damage against Caenis until he was able to grab Poseidon's shattered core... it's like people missed why both was important to ultimately shatter Caenis' defensive NP.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/one-piece-vs-fate.1157821/page-2?post=100711699#post-100711699

I mean, this is kind of one of things where it's just part of the general "vibe" of the story when you read it; presenting collections of feats like I'm about to do just really isn't the same. But okay.

Dragon Albion moving at single-digit Mach speeds and accelerating beyond Mach 2 is clearly supposed to be impressive and fast.

When you ONLY take it to those speeds and act that's "Nasu being consistent", yes that's a major problem considering the fact of how:
A) Melusine is capable of traveling across Faerie Britain, a place as big as the actual Britain which can take days even for the fastest Faerie Horse getting around "close spots" in mere MINUTES(I can't even say an Hour or more considering no one ever believes she takes long getting anywhere), saying she's only Mach 2 is retarded

B) Albion is stated to be able to ignore Inertia and Friction as a whole, it makes no sense she's only stuck at Mach 2.

C) Let's ignore the Storm Border is capable of Mach 8-11 which meant they could outspeed Melusine but that was never in the cards meaning her only being Mach 2 is stupid as hell

D) Her Materials outright state she's capable of Interstellar Travel... which would require way more than Mach 2.

Melusine boasts about breaking the sound barrier in 0.3 seconds.

Okay? I don't see how that shows her being slower but just how insanely quick she can go from literal less than a second to break the sound barrier, having truly absurd acceleration.

Babylonia has Kingu's flight speed at 500km/hr, which is supposed to be impressive. It is noted that this is within Age of the Gods mana concentration, though how this affects flight speed is anyone's guess.

Considering outside of Ishtar, no one else except Lahmu(Who are under Tiamat's complete influence) and Kingu can fly at all in Babylonia? That kinda shows that the sheer Magical Energy Concentration is so absurd, being able to fly at all is an achievement, let alone fly faster than sound in it.

Tsukihime R's speed is actually quite consistent and grounded overall. Nasu gives a decent number of timeframes in terms of seconds or tenths of seconds, in which the combatants cross single-digit / low double-digit meters, among other things.

For a few speed showings that Shiki has himself, after becoming a half-vampire:

Shiki runs 100 meters in 5 seconds

Roa estimates that Shiki can sprint 40 meters in 0.8 seconds

Shiki thinks he can cross the distance between himself and Noel in 2 seconds

• the arena they're in has a diameter of 40 meters

Shiki sprints at 50km/hr

The funny thing is... I already know this is wrong and he explicitly fished for these because even in Tsukihime Remake, Shiki Tohno does some absolutely stupid shit because of his Nanaya Bloodline and even then, considering how much of a glowup Dead Apostles get in the Remake... these are some insanely bad low ends.

Yes, Shiki is not very strong compared to pretty much anyone he fights (except for DA Noel), but he is able to either consistently keep up or not lag too far behind them on the speed front.

Even Vlov's icicle projectiles move at similar speeds.
They take 1.5 seconds to cover the distance between himself and Shiki

• The distance between them is 30-some meters

This one is less concrete, since "second" can also just be a generically short unit of time, but Arc also blitzes Ciel by covering 500 meters in a single second. It's worth nothing that this is the best feat done by a character in the entire novel that has an explicit distance and (less clear) timeframe.

I want to emphasize that Nasu uses "meters" in relation with "seconds" a lot.

There is a fair amount of FTE stuff, but that mostly happens within the range of single-digit meters or slightly more.

Mahoyo...doesn't really have "speed feats", but you don't really get the impression that the characters are moving at significantly superhuman speeds. The one figure we get is for one of Touko's puppets - max speed of 45mph. It's basically fodder, but it was optimized for moving quickly and gives a general "scale" for speed since there is pretty much nothing else.

Again, he's explicitly going after the low ends while constantly iterating that "This is the most consistent series" when you then have Ciel being able to casually deal with a Dead Apostle Ancestor becoming Lightning, Roa's expertise in genuine Lightning Magecraft still being a thing(And confirmed in Type Lumina), Ciel being able to hit Arcueid dead on with her Seventh Scripture Great Bow mode from hundreds of meters away immediately amongst other shit.

It's the same thing I hear about them trying to act as if "Samurai Remnant is consistent low tier" when they explicitly show they are just hunting low ends and never realize you can literally say the same shit about One Piece or any other franchise.

 

[Regular-Nothing Eric]

I already said Omni-Man would solo?

Yeah but I meant debunking his arguments and justification for all shonen protagonists supposedly being able to "solo" Omniman:

1. Son Goku (King Piccolo Saga) - King Piccolo was on the level of "obliterate most of a city with some small expenditure of power," and Goku did beat him but Goku also didn't show firepower to match him. He might be able to mess with Omni-Man given how hard he can hit at this point but Omni-Man might just be able to outlast him.

2. Naruto Uzumaki (No Boruto) - Naruto can spam attacks that dwarf the Hammer and has access to a lot of esoteric stuff on top of that. Might take a while but he'll do it.

3. Monkey D. Luffy - Luffy hits absurdly hard, Haki bypasses durability normally and Ryou is more advanced form of that. He can just shower Nolan with blows until he goes down. Also, Gear 5 breaks all the rules of durability to some extent so I am pretty sure Nolan will be hurt by him much worse than he would expect.

4. Ichigo Kurosaki (Final Getsuga Tensho version) - Dude obliterates small mountains by swinging in their general direction and is a million times faster than Nolan. Easy clap here.

5. Yusuke Urameshi - With the powerups he got from the Demon World Tournament arc, he blows away mountains with his energy attacks, punches people into the stratosphere with minimal effort and is much, much faster than Nolan. Might take a while but I think his damage output is high enough that he can kill Nolan before he gases out.

7. Izuku Midoriya - I don't think he quite hits hard enough. He can certainly blitz with Gear Shift and Full Cowl but I don't think he can hurt Nolan enough to actually kill him before Deku runs out of energy.

8. Yoh Asakura - Assuming he has Amidamaru rather than the Spirit of the Earth, I don't think he does enough damage. No idea how Nolan would interact with an Oversoul but I don't think he can be hurt by it outside of some kind of spiritual attack damage rules or something. Yoh can blitz all day but Shamen are specifically built around having finite resources so I imagine he'd run dry before Nolan goes down.

9. Gash Bell (Original Series) - Sidestepping the whole Kiyomaru casting angle; Gash shoves mountains around physically, wrestles with people who outmuscle black holes, critically wounds city-sized giants with his biggest attacks and has taken mountain erasing attacks to the face without dying. He's a lot faster and has a lot of energy to throw around. Nolan will be hurting but given that Gash can likely contest him in raw strength as well, this is a messy one.

10. Ranma Saotome - Trivially faster but doesn't hit nearly hard enough and, because Nolan only has physical attacks, he's not really got the Hiryuu Shoten-ha on deck for this. It'll take days but Ranma will tire and Nolan will maul him.

11. Tanjiro Kamado - Can't hurt him, eventually tires and dies easily.

12. Meliodas (Original Series) - Hits incredibly hard, especially with his endgame abilities that allow him to match The One in combat. Effortlessly quicker and has regen on top of that. I don't think Nolan can win here.

13. Natsu Dragneel - No comment, I think not enough gun but others will know more.

14. Negi Springfield (Original Series) - Hard to say. He's well faster than him even outside of Great Thunder In Heaven but his biggest hits cost him a fair amount of energy and he doesn't have a limitless supply. Tota Kanoe would have an easier time. I think Negi could likely take it, he's resourceful enough to manage his energy for an attrition battle.

16. Koro-Sensei - Waaaay too fast but doesn't hit that hard as I recall. I think he has a suicide move that shattered the moon or something? It's been a long time. I favour Nolan on gut instinct here.

17. Alita - See my previous comments about Viltrumite vulnerability to vibrations in their flight centre. That's technically not canon in the animated show yet but, if we consider it a strat, then Alita is almost tailor-made to debilitate Nolan.

18. Toriko (Pre-timeskip) - Way too fast, arguably a lot stronger, likely mauls him.

20. Gon Freecss (Adult Form) - Way too fast but doesn't hit... that hard... I think he might die before he kills Nolan depending on how we interpret his Nen Condition functioning in this scenario. Hits Nolan a lot, likely hurts him a bit but I don't think he can put him down.

22. Vash the Stampede - Waaaay too fast again. The Angel Arm at max hits harder than the Hammer so that works. Or he can use black hole bullets which... should work?

24. Shinra Kusakabe (No Shinrabanshoman) - Even with lightspeed, doesn't hit nearly hard enough. Nolan eventually grabs him and it's done.

25. Kenshiro - Much too fast and I can't imagine that Hokuto Shinken wouldn't work on Viltrumites as they're very close to human in terms of physiological structure. Phase fist, sever his nerves, take him to pieces.

So yeah, that's a lot of them that could likely solo.

Edit - Okay so upon closer reading, he admitted some characters would get mauled by Nolan, but of the ones that won't according to him, that's where I want to see the debunking in action.

 

[Paxton]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/yor-briar-spy-x-family-vs-junko-hokaze-toaru.1157959/post-100715260

She matched Gunha with a special boost and even that is a generous way of putting it. In all likelihood, Gunha was holding back. Gunha's stats in general rival with motivation and at max. motivation he can face Level 6 Shift Misaka. It's extremely unlikely for a (regular) Level 4 to be comparable to someone like that.

Not that I'm saying Junko doesn't win, but she isn't lightning speed or anything.

In Astral Buddy she dodges literal light from a flashlight being used as a weapon.

 

[Atem]

Even the Amazon Omni Man is now too fast. If you equalize speed, then you got several on the list that could take him

Amazon Omniman is more powerful. Even Space Racer is Star Level now.

 

[Gordo]

The largest Kamehameha in canon?

 

[Salfarc]

No, her Armor IS the Mana Burst defensively just like Mordred's armor(Outside of her Helmet) is her Mana Burst being defensive as well as Arthur's.


(EDIT: To put it in better terms, Salter's Armor is the reason why she didn't get ground to dust to Medusa's Bellerophon in HF3 and it's the reason why Artoria doesn't instantly lose limbs getting hit at all by Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon... which shows her even being nerfed badly just how insanely strong Artoria is in hindsight)
There's a reason it's not mentioned at all to be a Skill or Noble Phantasm by any means and we get in Fate/Zero when she discards the armor, she gets an absurd power and speed boost as it is her Mana Burst being defensive:





I really can't believe you fell for that terrible as hell bait when anyone can see what happened in that picture...



Simple, it's just an excuse for them to dismiss feats that are right in your face that they can't answer for BUT they can dismiss by acting as if Nasu is doing Purple Prose... the problem with that is that Purple Prose is hilariously easy to spot as it's just pontificating a simple scene for way too long(Like turning a simple sword clash that can be done in a simple sentence into an absolutely ridiculous 3 sentences and stretching it out like "The Shining Sword crosses the night sky, streaking through the heavens clashes against the Ebony Blade. They both ring out in a choir of steel, causing the silent night to explode in a cacophony of battle.", that sort of shit.).

This is made worse because they tend to use the UFOTable anime... which unironically actually does stifle down alot of the feats that happen in the series that, if you aren't actually paying attention, can make things seem weaker than it is. For instance, it's hilarious you have people say that Servants are supersonic... but then in Heaven's Feel 3, you have a good 2-3 minute fight of Salter and Medusa fighting huge parts of the ceiling falling to the ground... but it's only just those parts falling down, nothing else... which would be far, far beyond hypersonic.

This also has them basically going full stupid when they DO bring up how stupid fast Servants or other beings can be:

(This has been rounded down to Mach 1547, by the way).

Which then has people trying to act as if it suddenly FGO works on having a whole different franchise in each story to make sense of it
Because they vehemently believe that only Nasu is "consistent" when it comes to speed feats just so they can keep Servants at Supersonic... despite the man being the one who okays all of this and then created the scene where Ciel is able to deal with a Dead Apostle that can become legit Lightning no problem.
Nasu tends to break Spacebattles something fierce.

So do you think she get snap by other Servants without Mana Burst like what that guy said too?

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

So do you think she get snap by other Servants without Mana Burst like what that guy said too?

No? If that doesn't happen to her inferior copy Mordred, why would it happen to Artoria? We also know that's not true because if that was the case, she should be far more messed up getting hurt by Diarmuid's Spear if that's true(And we should know that's the case considering casual shockwaves done by their attacks can effortlessly crumble steel like it's cardboard in the LN and in the Anime)

 

[Adamant soul]

Base Unohana vs Fb bankai ichigo w/ blut

Title

www.fanverse.org

Unohana smashes him to pieces, she won't hold back like Yhwach did.

Implying Unohana is as strong as even a holding back Mustache?

She'd literally break her own arms trying to damage Ichigo with his Blut on.

Ichigo takes her head clean off with minimal effort.

Is there any actual proof that FKT Mask Bankai Ichigo is above the Top 4 Espadas ?

People say ''he manage to cut Aizen madafaking Sosuke''....and? Like what does that even mean? He inflicted moderate amount of damage with a full power Mask Getsuga Tenshou while Aizen was somewhat off-guard , the moment he was on guard he palmed the same Getsuga Tenshou. Harribel for example...

www.fanverse.org

People say ''he manage to cut Aizen madafaking Sosuke''....and? Like what does that even mean?

That he could harm much stronger than any Espada.

He inflicted moderate amount of damage with a full power Mask Getsuga Tenshou while Aizen was somewhat off-guard , the moment he was on guard he palmed the same Getsuga Tenshou.

And what is this supposed to mean? Only that Aizen is still stronger than him because no shit, it doesn't change the fact that hurting him at all > anything the Espada ever did.

Harribel for example could had damaged Aizen which is why he probably used Kyoka Suigetsu to counter her assault...

He uses Kyouka Suigetsu against everyone, including characters like Soi Fon who outright FAILED to damage him.
Harribel has nothing (pre-skip anyway) to suggest she could have actually hurt him.

On top of that he was blitzed by Aizen multiple times.

The Espada would get blitzed by Aizen as well.

Lost to Gin....

Once again, the Espada would lose to Gin as well.

Like what proof is there that FKT Mask Bankai Ichigo is anywhere above R1 Ulquiorra or R1 Harribel?

You mean aside from blocking attacks from a much stronger Espada in Released Yammy when he was at less than half his full power, actually being able to damage the man who them all his collective bitches or being able to block Gin's Bankai?

What feats do THEY have to compete with any of that? That's right, NOTHING.

Both of those Espadas in this form have reaction speed and movement speed and destructive power to deal with this Ichigo...

No they don't considering Yammy couldn't.

Is there any proof that FKT Mask Ichigo's raw speed increased so much that surpassed R1 Ulquiorra's who can do that to Mask Ichigo during their fight ?

He blocked Gin's Bankai so yes there is.

And I just rewatched the entire Reigai arc , so if you wanna use sources of this as evidence despite it being filler ....Ichigo in that arc has nuclear Getsuga Tenshous.
But so what? R1 Ulquiorra can casually produce such attacks with Luz de La Luna and Cero Oscuras....

Even if we were including the Reigai arc, Ulquiorra being able to replicate the AOE in NO WAY makes his attacks as strong as Ichigo's.
Once again, he has absolutely NOTHING on harming Aizen.

 

[Astaro]

Amazon Omniman is more powerful. Even Space Racer is Star Level now.

What in Season 2 got us Star level?

 

[Atem]

What in Season 2 got us Star level?

Space Racer's gun blew up a sun.

 

[Atem]

Which also means Viltrum can survive a direct shot from it. If it goes down the same way, and it needs three Viltrumites on top of that to destroy the planet.

 

[King of time]

Remo Williams vs. Genis-Vell

@Johnny Silverhand This is for you, choom. And that is choom with a hard "er." Remo Williams faces Genis-Vell in this holy rite of passage known as the method of test. Remo Williams at his absolute best with access to his mantra, and Genis-Vell as he was when he murdered Eternity, before...

www.fanverse.org

.

 

[Darth Nihilus]

@Derpmaster9000 @Xhominid The Apex

Paul Heyman guy

 

[King of time]

How so? Not that I care who wins either way, even though I like watching Invincible more than most of these shonenshit anime, but I'd like to know where you're coming from on this.

I'm just joking, he will definitely handle the entire list

 

[Astaro]

Which also means Viltrum can survive a direct shot from it. If it goes down the same way, and it needs three Viltrumites on top of that to destroy the planet.

We gotta see or at least the show imply a Viltrumite can survive that

Even in the scene it’s shown, Nolan himself says it’s something that can destroy anything and a huge threat if it’s as powerful as the story’s describe

 

[Darth Nihilus]

Lol I posted it in the wrong thread

HAPPY 4/20 DAY

 

[Atem]

We gotta see or at least the show imply a Viltrumite can survive that

Even in the scene it’s shown, Nolan himself says it’s something that can destroy anything and a huge threat if it’s as powerful as the story’s describe

That's why I said if. In the comic book? It's used to soften their planet Viltrum, before three viltrumites fly through it and destroy it. As the gun, by itself, wasn't enough.

 

[Astaro]

That's why I said if. In the comic book? It's used to soften their planet Viltrum, before three viltrumites fly through it and destroy it. As the gun, by itself, wasn't enough.

Shows deviated a fair bit from the comic so far. Just look at Battle Beast.

The gun’s gotten quite the upgrade here too so it’s too early to start saying Star level Omni-Man

 

[AlterSullivan]

The funny thing is... I already know this is wrong and he explicitly fished for these because even in Tsukihime Remake, Shiki Tohno does some absolutely stupid shit because of his Nanaya Bloodline and even then, considering how much of a glowup Dead Apostles get in the Remake... these are some insanely bad low ends.

They just cherrypicked the low ends. From TsukiR you also have:

Lighting mode Roa moving at lighting speed.
Arcueid's chains tagging Roa in his lighting mode, with the narrator explicitly stating you can't avoid them even moving at lighting speed.
Arcueid flying past the clouds in an instant.
Arcueid reacting to Calvaria Star, which is a near-instant city-spanning light reflector. You can see she jumped at least a block or whatever going by where she's firing her claw swipes to land right where Ciel was.
Shiki catching Calvaria Star in order to use it against the Luminary.
Shiki having time to use his gravity control spell from 200 meters away from his target while falling at FTL speed towards Arc's core (stated to be a speed that doesn't exist in reality, passing through "countless stars").

They also messed up the timeframe in the scene where Arcueid blitzed Ciel. Since it was mentioned it takes Ciel 0.2 seconds to nock an arrow, aim and fire. So "the span of a second it takes Ciel to nock an arrow" is below 0.2 seconds and not a full second like the dude claimed.