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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 5: Diamonds are fleeting. Stupid lasts forever

K now what if we plug in Cocytus's numbers? He's 8'2 (or 2.5 meters) since it uses the height to assume the top of the aura. And his aura covered twenty five meters around him.... From my understanding this should let us get cubic meters and make a calc.

Sorry to be asking all this of you Ive never touched chat gpt!
Tried to give it more context and asked it how it got its results. Here is what it said.
Let's re-calculate Cocytus's freezing feat using the updated dimensions for Cocytus and his aura:

### Updated Assumptions and Given Data:
  • Cocytus's Height: 2.5 meters
  • Radius of Aura: 25 meters
  • Number of Lizardmen: 57
  • Average Weight of Lizardmen: 220 pounds (99.79 kg)
  • Initial Body Temperature: 37°C (310.15 K)
  • Final Body Temperature: 0°C (273.15 K)
  • Specific Heat Capacity of the Human Body: 3.5 kJ/(kg·K)

### Volume Calculation:
1. Volume of Air Affected:
- Volume of a cylinder:
\[ V = \pi r^2 h \]
\[ V = \pi \times (25 \, \text{m})^2 \times 2.5 \, \text{m} \approx 4908.74 \, \text{m}^3 \]

### Heat Removed from Lizardmen:
\[ m = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \times 57 \approx 5688.03 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ Q = 5688.03 \, \text{kg} \times 3.5 \, \text{kJ/kg·K} \times 37 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q \approx 737,935.905 \, \text{kJ} \]

### Heat Removed from Air:
  • Density of air at 0°C: 1.275 kg/m³
  • Mass of air:
\[ m = 1.275 \, \text{kg/m}^3 \times 4908.74 \, \text{m}^3 \approx 6257.64 \, \text{kg} \]
  • Specific heat capacity of air: 1.005 kJ/(kg·K)
  • Temperature drop: 20 K

\[ Q = 6257.64 \, \text{kg} \times 1.005 \, \text{kJ/kg·K} \times 20 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q \approx 125,743.902 \, \text{kJ} \]

### Total Heat Removed:
\[ Q_{\text{total}} = 737,935.905 \, \text{kJ} + 125,743.902 \, \text{kJ} \approx 863,679.807 \, \text{kJ} \]

### Convert to Tons of TNT:
- 1 ton of TNT is approximately 4.184 × 10^9 kJ

\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{863,679.807 \, \text{kJ}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{kJ/ton}} \approx 0.206 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:
Using Cocytus's dimensions and the 25-meter radius of his aura, the energy required to instantly freeze 57 lizardmen and the surrounding air is approximately 0.206 tons of TNT. This calculation accounts for both the mass of the lizardmen and the volume of air within the affected area.
Let's clarify the situation:

### Instantaneous Freezing vs Gradual Freezing:

The calculation differences might stem from the assumption about how fast the freezing happens. If we assume instantaneous freezing, it involves a rapid removal of heat, which generally requires more energy.

### Re-evaluation Based on Instantaneous Freezing:

1. Instantaneous Freezing Assumption:
- The calculations assumed that Cocytus's frost aura instantly froze the lizardmen and the surrounding air.
- This assumption means that a large amount of energy is needed to drop the temperature rapidly.

2. Possible Gradual Freezing:
- If the lizardmen and surrounding area didn't freeze instantly, the energy required would be less because the process allows for heat dissipation over time.

### Comparing Talion's Feat:

Talion's feat likely involved the following assumptions:
  • Instantaneous and complete freezing of the area and entities within it.
  • High energy density due to the instantaneous nature.

### Summary of Differences:

  • Talion's Feat: Assumes instantaneous freezing with a high energy requirement leading to 5.98 tons of TNT.
  • Cocytus's Feat: When considering the instantaneous assumption, yields approximately 0.206 tons of TNT due to the restricted and controlled nature of the aura.

### Conclusion:

The significant difference arises because Talion's feat is modeled on instantaneous freezing requiring high energy density, while Cocytus's feat, when considered under the same assumption, results in a lower energy requirement due to his controlled and focused freezing effect. If Cocytus's freezing was gradual or not complete, the energy requirement would indeed be lower, explaining the discrepancy.
Talion's freezing feat is higher than Cocytus's because:

1. Affected Volume: Talion's freeze affects a specific, larger calculated volume around him.
2. Energy Density: The energy calculation for Talion assumes a very high energy density for instantaneous freezing.
3. Area of Effect: Talion's freeze is modeled to have a very intense and concentrated effect, requiring more energy per unit volume.

Cocytus's freezing is more distributed and controlled, resulting in a lower total energy requirement.
In the scene from Overlord Volume 4, Cocytus uses his [Frost Aura] skill to freeze 57 lizardmen instantly. He carefully restricts the aura's radius to 25 meters and reduces its damage to avoid affecting the entire village and to ensure the lizardmen chiefs survive for a fight. The aura creates an intense cold wave, dropping the temperature dramatically and quickly enough to cause the air to groan. The result is the immediate freezing and death of the 57 lizardmen, demonstrating Cocytus's controlled yet powerful ability.
To accurately calculate the energy required for Cocytus's freezing feat, we need to use the given specific heat and latent heat values and apply them to the lizardmen's characteristics.

### Steps to Calculate Energy:

1. Assumptions:
- Number of lizardmen: 57
- Average weight of a lizardman: 220 pounds (99.79 kg)
- Initial body temperature: 37°C
- Final body temperature: -4°C (frostbite level)
- Specific heat capacity of a lizardman: 3535 J/kg·K
- Enthalpy of fusion of water: 333550 J/kg

2. Heat Required to Lower Temperature:
\[ Q_1 = mc\Delta T \]
\[ m = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ c = 3535 \, \text{J/kg·K} \]
\[ \Delta T = 37°C - (-4°C) = 41 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_1 = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \times 3535 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 41 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_1 = 14,411,185.55 \, \text{J} \]

3. Heat Required for Phase Change:
\[ m_{\text{water}} = 0.65 \times 99.79 \, \text{kg} = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = m_{\text{water}} \times L \]
\[ L = 333550 \, \text{J/kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \times 333550 \, \text{J/kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = 21,640,923 \, \text{J} \]

4. Total Heat Required for One Lizardman:
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = Q_1 + Q_2 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 14,411,185.55 \, \text{J} + 21,640,923 \, \text{J} \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 36,052,108.55 \, \text{J} \]

5. Total Heat Required for 57 Lizardmen:
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = Q_{\text{total, one}} \times 57 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 36,052,108.55 \, \text{J} \times 57 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 2,055,971,888.35 \, \text{J} \]

6. Convert to Tons of TNT:
\[ 1 \, \text{ton of TNT} = 4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{2,055,971,888.35 \, \text{J}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J/ton}} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} \approx 0.491 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:

The energy required for Cocytus to freeze 57 lizardmen is approximately 0.491 tons of TNT. This includes lowering their body temperatures to -4°C and accounting for the phase change of the water in their bodies. This calculation assumes instantaneous freezing.
 

Randomdude

Preeminent
This is making less sense to me

They're pure muscle, far more durable then humans and have scales tougher then poorly made iron armor.

Im really not getting why talions is higher, cocytus freezes a larger area in the same amount of time. Heck when I calculated using cocytus height and area in chatgpt (Asking it to swap talions numbers for cocytus) I got a much higher yield.

I mean it's more controlled but cocytus literally flips it on and off instantly freezing the area around him and killing the lizardmen. I don't see how that affects the calculation.
 
@Randomdude So I copied and pasted the Lizardmen wiki info and the calc increased.

Given the detailed information about the lizardmen from Overlord, let's integrate this to ensure the calculation is accurate.

### Updated Freezing Feat Calculation:

1. Characteristics of Lizardmen:
- Average height: 6'3" (1.905 meters)
- Average weight: 220 pounds (99.79 kg)
- Higher durability and muscle mass: 1.4 times that of humans

2. Heat Removed from Lizardmen:
- Assume lizardmen have 1.4 times the heat capacity due to increased muscle mass.
- Mass: 99.79 kg
- Specific heat capacity of the human body: 3535 J/kg·K
- Adjusted specific heat capacity for lizardmen: \( 3535 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 1.4 = 4949 \, \text{J/kg·K} \)
- Temperature change: \( 37°C \rightarrow -4°C = 41 \, \text{K} \)

\[ Q = mc\Delta T \]
\[ Q = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \times 4949 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 41 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q = 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} \]

3. Heat Removed for Phase Change (Water):
- Water mass in lizardmen: \( 0.65 \times 99.79 \, \text{kg} = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \)
- Enthalpy of fusion for water: 333550 J/kg

\[ Q = mL \]
\[ Q = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \times 333550 \, \text{J/kg} \]
\[ Q = 21,641,073 \, \text{J} \]

4. Total Heat Required for One Lizardman:
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} + 21,641,073 \, \text{J} \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \]

5. Total Heat Required for 57 Lizardmen:
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \times 57 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J} \]

6. Convert to Tons of TNT:
\[ 1 \, \text{ton of TNT} = 4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J/ton}} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} \approx 3.05 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:

Considering the higher durability and muscle mass of the lizardmen, the energy required for Cocytus to freeze 57 lizardmen is approximately 3.05 tons of TNT. This calculation takes into account their increased heat capacity and muscle mass compared to humans.
 

Randomdude

Preeminent
@Randomdude So I copied and pasted the Lizardmen wiki info and the calc increased.
I asked it to include air in it's calc and it gave me

Considering the additional heat removed from the surrounding air along with the lizardmen, the total energy required for Cocytus to freeze them amounts to approximately 0.0873 tons of TNT. This calculation integrates the energy needed to lower the temperature of both the lizardmen and the air within the freezing AOE. Thus, it provides a comprehensive assessment of the freezing feat's energy demands in the context of Overlord's lizardmen.


I don't trust this bot anymore and Im gonna try to maths.
 
This is making less sense to me

They're pure muscle, far more durable then humans and have scales tougher then poorly made iron armor.

Im really not getting why talions is higher, cocytus freezes a larger area in the same amount of time. Heck when I calculated using cocytus height and area in chatgpt (Asking it to swap talions numbers for cocytus) I got a much higher yield.

I mean it's more controlled but cocytus literally flips it on and off instantly freezing the area around him and killing the lizardmen. I don't see how that affects the calculation.
So 3.13 tons of TNT.
Let's clarify the calculation again to ensure accuracy and fairness. We'll use Cocytus's numbers and calculate based on his feat, ensuring consistency.

### Parameters:
1. Cocytus's Feat:
- Radius of freezing: 25 meters
- Height of the area affected: 2.5 meters (Cocytus's height)
- Number of lizardmen: 57
- Weight per lizardman: 99.79 kg
- Initial temperature: 37°C
- Final temperature: -4°C
- Specific heat capacity: 4949 J/kg·K (adjusted for muscle mass)
- Enthalpy of fusion for water: 333550 J/kg
- Water mass fraction: 65% of body weight

### Calculation Steps:

1. Volume of Affected Area:
\[ V = \pi r^2 h \]
\[ V = \pi \times (25 \, \text{m})^2 \times 2.5 \, \text{m} \approx 4908.74 \, \text{m}^3 \]

2. Heat Required to Lower Temperature:
\[ Q_1 = mc\Delta T \]
\[ m_{\text{one lizardman}} = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ c = 4949 \, \text{J/kg·K} \]
\[ \Delta T = 41 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_1 = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \times 4949 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 41 \, \text{K} \approx 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} \]

3. Heat Required for Phase Change:
\[ m_{\text{water}} = 0.65 \times 99.79 \, \text{kg} = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = m_{\text{water}} \times L \]
\[ L = 333550 \, \text{J/kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \times 333550 \, \text{J/kg} = 21,641,073 \, \text{J} \]

4. Total Heat for One Lizardman:
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = Q_1 + Q_2 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} + 21,641,073 \, \text{J} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \]

5. Total Heat for 57 Lizardmen:
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \times 57 = 12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J} \]

6. Convert to Tons of TNT:
\[ 1 \, \text{ton of TNT} = 4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J/ton}} \approx 3.05 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:
The calculation confirms that Cocytus's feat involves approximately 3.05 tons of TNT, considering the instantaneous freezing of 57 lizardmen in a 25-meter radius. This calculation aligns with the increased durability and muscle mass of the lizardmen.

The reason for the higher yield when using Cocytus's numbers compared to Talion's might stem from the total volume and mass involved. Cocytus's feat involves a larger affected area and a greater number of high-durability targets. This accounts for the substantial energy required, reflecting the intensity of his freezing ability.
To account for the lizardmen's scales being tougher than poorly made iron armor, we should consider the energy required to break through these scales when freezing. This means we need to add the energy required to overcome the scales' durability to our total energy calculation.

### Additional Energy for Breaking Through Scales:

1. Assumption:
- Let's assume the toughness of the scales adds an additional energy requirement similar to breaking iron armor.
- Energy required to break iron armor is roughly 300 J/cm² (this is an estimated value for poorly made iron armor).

2. Surface Area of a Lizardman:
- Average human surface area: 1.9 m²
- Lizardmen being more muscular might have a slightly higher surface area: let's assume 2 m².
- Convert to cm²: \( 2 \, \text{m}^2 = 20,000 \, \text{cm}^2 \)

3. Energy Required to Break Through Scales:
\[ \text{Energy per lizardman} = 300 \, \text{J/cm}^2 \times 20,000 \, \text{cm}^2 = 6,000,000 \, \text{J} \]

4. Total Energy for 57 Lizardmen:
\[ \text{Total energy for scales} = 6,000,000 \, \text{J} \times 57 = 342,000,000 \, \text{J} \]

5. Combined Energy Calculation:
- From previous calculations, total energy to freeze 57 lizardmen: 12,753,004,986.7 J
- Add the energy required to break through scales:
\[ \text{New total energy} = 12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J} + 342,000,000 \, \text{J} = 13,095,004,986.7 \, \text{J} \]

6. Convert to Tons of TNT:
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{13,095,004,986.7 \, \text{J}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J/ton}} \approx 3.13 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:
Including the additional energy required to break through the lizardmen’s tougher scales, the total energy for Cocytus's feat increases to approximately 3.13 tons of TNT. This reflects the enhanced durability due to their scales being tougher than poorly made iron armor.
 
I asked it to include air in it's calc and it gave me

Considering the additional heat removed from the surrounding air along with the lizardmen, the total energy required for Cocytus to freeze them amounts to approximately 0.0873 tons of TNT. This calculation integrates the energy needed to lower the temperature of both the lizardmen and the air within the freezing AOE. Thus, it provides a comprehensive assessment of the freezing feat's energy demands in the context of Overlord's lizardmen.


I don't trust this bot anymore and Im gonna try to maths.
The version of ChatGPT I’m using is 4o.
 
I asked it to include the air. 3.16 tons of TNT.
To ensure an accurate and thorough calculation, let's factor in the energy required to lower the temperature of both the lizardmen and the surrounding air.

### Updated Calculation:

1. Assumptions and Given Data:
- Number of lizardmen: 57
- Average weight of a lizardman: 99.79 kg
- Specific heat capacity: 4949 J/kg·K (adjusted for muscle mass)
- Enthalpy of fusion for water: 333550 J/kg
- Initial temperature: 37°C
- Final temperature: -4°C
- Air volume: 4908.74 m³ (cylindrical volume with radius 25 meters and height 2.5 meters)
- Density of air: 1.275 kg/m³
- Specific heat capacity of air: 1.005 kJ/kg·K (1005 J/kg·K)
- Initial air temperature: 20°C
- Final air temperature: 0°C

### Step-by-Step Calculation:

1. Heat Required to Lower Temperature of Lizardmen:
\[ Q_1 = mc\Delta T \]
\[ Q_1 = 99.79 \, \text{kg} \times 4949 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 41 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_1 = 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} \]

2. Heat Required for Phase Change (Water):
\[ m_{\text{water}} = 0.65 \times 99.79 \, \text{kg} = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ Q_2 = m_{\text{water}} \times L \]
\[ Q_2 = 64.86 \, \text{kg} \times 333550 \, \text{J/kg} = 21,641,073 \, \text{J} \]

3. Total Heat for One Lizardman:
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = Q_1 + Q_2 \]
\[ Q_{\text{total, one}} = 202,058,997.1 \, \text{J} + 21,641,073 \, \text{J} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \]

4. Total Heat for 57 Lizardmen:
\[ Q_{\text{total, all}} = 223,700,070.1 \, \text{J} \times 57 = 12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J} \]

5. Heat Required to Lower Temperature of Air:
\[ \text{Mass of air} = \text{Density} \times \text{Volume} \]
\[ \text{Mass of air} = 1.275 \, \text{kg/m}^3 \times 4908.74 \, \text{m}^3 = 6257.64 \, \text{kg} \]
\[ \Delta T_{\text{air}} = 20 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_{\text{air}} = \text{Mass of air} \times \text{Specific heat capacity of air} \times \Delta T \]
\[ Q_{\text{air}} = 6257.64 \, \text{kg} \times 1005 \, \text{J/kg·K} \times 20 \, \text{K} \]
\[ Q_{\text{air}} = 125,743,902 \, \text{J} \]

6. Additional Energy for Breaking Through Scales:
\[ \text{Energy per lizardman} = 300 \, \text{J/cm}^2 \times 20,000 \, \text{cm}^2 = 6,000,000 \, \text{J} \]
\[ \text{Total energy for scales} = 6,000,000 \, \text{J} \times 57 = 342,000,000 \, \text{J} \]

7. Total Energy Calculation:
\[ Q_{\text{total}} = Q_{\text{total, all}} + Q_{\text{air}} + \text{Energy for scales} \]
\[ Q_{\text{total}} = 12,753,004,986.7 \, \text{J} + 125,743,902 \, \text{J} + 342,000,000 \, \text{J} \]
\[ Q_{\text{total}} = 13,220,748,888.7 \, \text{J} \]

8. Convert to Tons of TNT:
\[ 1 \, \text{ton of TNT} = 4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} = \frac{13,220,748,888.7 \, \text{J}}{4.184 \times 10^9 \, \text{J/ton}} \]
\[ \text{Energy in tons of TNT} \approx 3.16 \, \text{tons of TNT} \]

### Summary:
The energy required for Cocytus's freezing feat, including the energy needed to lower the temperature of both the lizardmen and the surrounding air, as well as breaking through their tough scales, is approximately 3.16 tons of TNT. This calculation accounts for all factors and reflects the significant energy involved in his powerful freezing ability.
I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS D:
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Flowering Knight

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
If I recall someone calced the lake freezing from the anime and it came out to city level

We've had Overlord at that level for a while now, speed is where they're really lacking in comparison
 

Randomdude

Preeminent
I asked it to include the air. 3.16 tons of TNT.
I got chat gptd about chatgpt, I have to respect and fear your power magic man

Apologies for the annoyance it just really confused me because they're functionally the same feat (Instantly freezing in an aoe), except cocytus was affecting more people in a larger area.
 

Thirteen prime

Preeminent
🤔
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member

Genkidama: I'm sure, don't you have a copeing discord with every post I make and cry about it?

Rich coming from a cockroach who not only waited for me to be banned first before crawling out of their hole, but also proceeded to directly quote and insult me, knowing I wouldn’t respond back.

Since you’ve just admitted you lurk here, Genki, why don’t you stop being a little bitch and sign up on here?
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member

" Like the True Magics Gods who are infinitely above Alice"

Lol no, other way around.

GT10's narration says that a Magic God, Coronzon, or Kingsford would die against inner Alice without even realizing it.

A former Magic God in that same volume directly says that Alice's ability goes beyond the framework of magic itself and that she can do practically anything.

GT4's narration says that Anna Sprengel, who's inferior to Kingsford (who's also superior to the full power of Aiwass in GT8 I believe), is superior to Magic Gods and is also directly called "the strongest" in regards to her subduing Aiwass and her general capabilities, by a former Magic God herself.

NT22 says that Coronzon in the Abyss could be tamed easily by Anna Sprengel, which already puts her above NT Aleister (and true Gremlin, at that, since they were never able to cross the Abyss).
 
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Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Considering that current Aleister (who's much more powerful than his NT self, who could already kill true Gremlin with the A.A.A., which itself is inferior to Aiwass) could literally never hope to fight Kingsford who themselves is inferior to Alice in combat ability...

The idea that true Gremlin are superior to her is a load of nonsense.
This is tantamount to saying current Aleister could, with prep, find a way to permanently kill Alice (he can't).


This goes against the basic narrative of GT.
 
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