^just want to note the problematic alien x multiversal quote was actually walked back by DJW who seemed annoyed people kept thinking X was multiversal and straight up said it only affected one universe
you can argue Clockwork’s feat but thats a separate issue complete unrelated to WoG
some series also have things they only bother to explain with WoG like transformers, especially with the shroud. It was only explicitly cleared up in an obscure blog by an official author. The actual material only vaguely covered what he talked about
Fromsoft games directed by Miyazaki also have this issue. Stuff like the way species work in Dark Souls isn’t elaborated in much if at all in game and only has canon info from old interviews. Less so with the weird dragon immortality but it’s still more spelled out in miyazaki’s interviews than anywhere else prior to dark souls 3
tf authors actually contradict themselves a lot when asked about the exact same things which is why i brought it up
bionicle is actually another good one that has tons of important WoG reveals but he also contradicts himself aaaaall the time so it’s difficult to know when and what to use
it is a lot like marvel, dc, or any major production with many different authors yeah. The only thing that sets TF apart is the “everything is canon” stance which is where this can become a headacheWell that answer is apparent:
How far up the totem pole is some of the authors to the actual creators? Do they further use the info from one major author or another?
Like yeah, it will end up being a pain in the ass but the buck has to stop somewhere, it's no different than Marvel or DC.
it is a lot like marvel, dc, or any major production with many different authors yeah. The only thing that sets TF apart is the “everything is canon” stance which is where this can become a headache
My approach is that I gather the most amount of consistent statements and put it together with what we know to reach a conclusion
Because TF is known for being insanely inconsistent in general, so it’s extremely easy to lose track of what matters, and when it matters etc etc
yeah I mean there are many statements for example about the TF multiverse being finite, but I don’t use them because the infinity nonsense statements and explanations vastly outnumber them
Elric can also be like this. Moorcock has called his multiverse infinite or “only” quasi-infinite on multiple separate contradictory occasions. Apparently to him they both coexist because he is using Zoroastrianism as one source of inspo, where both concepts coexist.
I lost whatever point I was making in there but lol
funnily enough for as long running as it is, transformers mostly barely even has speed feats (relative to its scope as a franchise) it just happened to be that the few it does have are usually bullshit fast or outside of any ability to measure entirelyI actually do understand what you are talking about.
How many times do I hear people constantly bitch about "How they know Nasu constantly pulls shit out of his ass" or "being inconsistent" because in Japanese, him and the writers under him go by "High Speed" and all of that other jazz, meaning any actual localizations should never be used(Ignore that this is only ever done for the Nasuverse and not any other series that has the same issue).
The obvious as hell issue is that this practically ignores things like the characters being able to intercept or dodge literal Lightning, dodge Lasers/Light, keep up with beings that move as fast as light throughout the series multiple times.
Shiki Tohno cutting a Lightning Bolt from Roa is in a Melty Blood Manga for fuck's sake(which wasn't that long after Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero came out).
So you end up with people constantly trying to rush in with High Ends and using pure Japanese translation to disprove things despite the various VN, Anime and Manga have feats that goes against those statements multiple times.
It's basically not understanding that most authors don't give a fuck about being anal of a character's speed unless you explicitly asked them yourself... and then be surprised when surprise, surprise, a character can move FTL because hey, every other feat you ignore went straight into that one anyway.
funnily enough for as long running as it is, transformers mostly barely even has speed feats (relative to its scope as a franchise) it just happened to be that the few it does have are usually bullshit fast or outside of any ability to measure entirely
bullet level toumai do think consistency is an important way to determine what is and isn’t valid, but claiming something is inconsistent has become just another form of downplay by certain forums and is how you get slower than bullet speed Kars and wall level elden ring characters
Yeah, that's understandable but the issue is that you also get it in reverse with people trying to throw in something to downplay because it's also "more consistent"i do think consistency is an important way to determine what is and isn’t valid, but claiming something is inconsistent has become just another form of downplay by certain forums and is how you get slower than bullet speed Kars and wall level elden ring characters
I will say I think arguing “from the narrative” is actually valid and one of the most important ways you evaluate potential outliers
the issue is what SB specifically calls breaking the narrative, and what actually breaks/contradicts it are completely different things
when they are arguing that JoJo characters can’t be ftl because it breaks the setting/narrative/etc they aren’t arguing it against anything that the author is actually stating in the story, they’re arguing it against their personal opinion on what should be realistic or consistent for that setting, and whether they are hypothetically right about this or not it’s a fallacious argument. FTL Stands doesn’t break anything because Araki has constantly reiterated and shown us that stands can move and punch and perceive things at this level.
Bringing up “they should be able to run around the world then” not only doesn’t make much sense (fiction generally treats reaction speeds as higher than travel, jojo just has a bigger discrepancy wrt this), it isn’t actually brought up in the story as a possibility or issue at all. This kind of hardline approach also falls apart when you realize that even low level supersonic characters should not take anywhere near as long as they do to get places. As an argumental tactic it doesn’t hold up for any measure of superspeed, their subjective disbelief just isn’t being suspended here so they throw out the feat.
JoJo is an extreme example of this, but even series with a much average higher power and speed like Toriko, look how long it can take them to travel their planet. It’s everywhere in fiction, it may as well just be a trope at this point.
Regarding pros, outliers are a good place to consult the narrative. I complain about IDW Transformers being wanked to universal a lot and it is because the narrative contradicts and doesn’t support it. Characters supposedly using “universe level attacks” during an arc where they need significant prep and equipment to allow one universe to bleed into the next. Characters tanking universal attacks in one arc (that were never confirmed to be that strong) then time and time again being nearly killed by planet level attacks and far lower. No matter how you slice it, the feats aren’t consistent and they certainly don’t match up to how we are actually told they or the story are playing out.
Fate/Zero Anime Visual Guide II said:
Higashide: Incidentally, does the sharpness of Excalibur vary when covered with and without Invisible Air?
Nasu: It varies considerably. The destructive power of this golden version is overwhelmingly superior. If the power when in Invisible Air is 80-90, the golden version is about 1000.
it’s Yusuke not being able to catch up to a truck all over again lol
while at the end of the same arc, and granted he got a power up but still, he’s crossing like entire countries’ worth of distances in panels
Pretty much also the reason why FTL One Piece isn't accepted yet. Sure, we may have had the odd FTL calc in the past, and there are a good amount of feats that definitely look (and some that are) FTL... but until someone's able to actually outspeed Kizaru then none of that stuff is accepted.I will say I think arguing “from the narrative” is actually valid and one of the most important ways you evaluate potential outliers
the issue is what SB specifically calls breaking the narrative, and what actually breaks/contradicts it are completely different things
when they are arguing that JoJo characters can’t be ftl because it breaks the setting/narrative/etc they aren’t arguing it against anything that the author is actually stating in the story, they’re arguing it against their personal opinion on what should be realistic or consistent for that setting, and whether they are hypothetically right about this or not it’s a fallacious argument. FTL Stands doesn’t break anything because Araki has constantly reiterated and shown us that stands can move and punch and perceive things at this level.
Bringing up “they should be able to run around the world then” not only doesn’t make much sense (fiction generally treats reaction speeds as higher than travel, jojo just has a bigger discrepancy wrt this), it isn’t actually brought up in the story as a possibility or issue at all. This kind of hardline approach also falls apart when you realize that even low level supersonic characters should not take anywhere near as long as they do to get places. As an argumental tactic it doesn’t hold up for any measure of superspeed, their subjective disbelief just isn’t being suspended here so they throw out the feat.
JoJo is an extreme example of this, but even series with a much average higher power and speed like Toriko, look how long it can take them to travel their planet. It’s everywhere in fiction, it may as well just be a trope at this point.
Regarding pros, outliers are a good place to consult the narrative. I complain about IDW Transformers being wanked to universal a lot and it is because the narrative contradicts and doesn’t support it. Characters supposedly using “universe level attacks” during an arc where they need significant prep and equipment to allow one universe to bleed into the next. Characters tanking universal attacks in one arc (that were never confirmed to be that strong) then time and time again being nearly killed by planet level attacks and far lower. No matter how you slice it, the feats aren’t consistent and they certainly don’t match up to how we are actually told they or the story are playing out.
Wait, didn't Garp literally react to Kizaru when he was light in Sabaody?Pretty much also the reason why FTL One Piece isn't accepted yet. Sure, we may have had the odd FTL calc in the past, and there are a good amount of feats that definitely look (and some that are) FTL... but until someone's able to actually outspeed Kizaru then none of that stuff is accepted.
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