Misconceptions about VS. Debating

[Flowering Knight]

Wait, didn't Garp literally react to Kizaru when he was light in Sabaody?

Reacting to light =/= actually being faster than light.

It's why we treat the series as relativistic to lightspeed, but Kizaru's meant to be the fastest character in the series, and he's only lightspeed. If, say, Sanji were to blatantly outspeed him in a fight, then absolutely the verse would break the FTL barrier.

 

[Blade]

sanji outspeeding kizaru would be as canon as yamcha outspeeding dyspo

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Pretty much also the reason why FTL One Piece isn't accepted yet. Sure, we may have had the odd FTL calc in the past, and there are a good amount of feats that definitely look (and some that are) FTL... but until someone's able to actually outspeed Kizaru then none of that stuff is accepted.

tbh the calcs so far actually even line up with the narrative afaik. There hasn’t been one laser dodge feat that didn’t net relativistic numbers yet that I saw. So technically nobody is “faster” than him yet either in the story or via calcs. Rayleigj is the only character I remember ever intercepting Kizaru’s speed and I think that still didn’t break C or something

distance and all that make it a bitch. It’s why Silver Chariot cutting a laser can be many many times lightspeed

 

[Cryso Agori]

One thing that I'm seeing recently that's grating my nerves, I do not get why people think that movement speed cancels out reaction speed.

Like the stardust crusaders can't run faster than a car sure.

Doesn't change that fact that polnareff can literally see light with his eyes and Jotaro can punch 1000x faster than light.


Like Jotaro can't run faster than cheetu, but if he's in range he's putting holes in him before the neurons in his head fires.

 

[Astaro]

One thing that I'm seeing recently that's grating my nerves, I do not get why people think that movement speed cancels out reaction speed.

Like the stardust crusaders can't run faster than a car sure.

Doesn't change that fact that polnareff can literally see light with his eyes and Jotaro can punch 1000x faster than light.


Like Jotaro can't run faster than cheetu, but if he's in range he's putting holes in him before the neurons in his head fires.

He actually can’t. Hence why he needed to know the direction Hanged Man was going and attack accordingly.

Silver Chariot is able to strike faster than light can travel though

 

[Cryso Agori]

He actually can’t. Hence why he needed to know the direction Hanged Man was going and attack accordingly.

Silver Chariot is able to strike faster than light can travel though

@OtherGalaxy posted the manga scan where Polnareff sees Hanged Man as he's moving despite being light so, no.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Polnareff literally sees it traveling before it reached the bumper...
Neither @Thegoldenboy2188 nor @OtherGalaxy was wrong in this instance.

 

[Paxton]

I'm just now realizing how super blatant it is that Polnareff can, in fact, keep up with the movement of Hanged Man while it is literally light

SB is so fucking retarded bro I can't

 

[OtherGalaxy]

i dont have the panel on hand but if you reread the arc yeah there is a page where Pol is able to see the beam move himself and he even says “I just saw it happen”, it’s how he figures out the trick to it

 

[Astaro]

@OtherGalaxy posted the manga scan where Polnareff sees Hanged Man as he's moving despite being light so, no.

I always just took it as him seeing the flash after it had already moved i.e. seeing light after its already reached your eyes.

Regardless, he had to set things up so that he knew that path it would travel ahead of time for Silver Chariot to cut it because he says he can’t see it. Not exactly something he would bother doing if he could.

The entire fight of Hanged Man was setting things up so the beam of light it is could only travel one path in order to beat it. That’s the only way how Polarneff was able to get him the two times he tagged him.

Silver Chariot is FTL but limited by Polnareff’s kinetic vision and there are a few characters FTL on their own like Kars, Joseph, and Rohan but Polnareff himself isn’t since the whole fight with Hanged Man wouldn’t make sense otherwise. His Stand is more than fast enough to tag it as it’s moving and he wouldn’t need to waste time controlling and predicting where the beam travels if he really could see and know anyway.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Yeah, I disagree, but fuck it I'm not gonna argue with you on this shit.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I always just took it as him seeing the flash after it had already moved i.e. seeing light after its already reached your eyes.

Regardless, he had to set things up so that he knew that path it would travel ahead of time for Silver Chariot to cut it because he says he can’t see it. Not exactly something he would bother doing if he could.

The entire fight of Hanged Man was setting things up so the beam of light it is could only travel one path in order to beat it. That’s the only way how Polarneff was able to get him the two times he tagged him.

Silver Chariot is FTL but limited by Polnareff’s kinetic vision and there are a few characters FTL on their own like Kars, Joseph, and Rohan but Polnareff himself isn’t since the whole fight with Hanged Man wouldn’t make sense otherwise. His Stand is more than fast enough to tag it as it’s moving and he wouldn’t need to waste time controlling and predicting where the beam travels if he really could see and know anyway.

Again, none of that actually proves your point. Hell, the anime explicitly shows Polnareff is not only seeing The Hanged Man move, he's explicitly following him entirely.
The 2nd part isn't even egregious because the manga has them dead ass hugging Polnareff and the Anime only barely has them any further and Silver Chariot would kill them trying to attack The Hanged Man.
Neither really proves your point as much as you think it does, Polnareff can see it move and can also react to it, it works both ways and thus he can deal with Lightspeed opponents and go FTL in all but movement.

 

[Astaro]

Again, none of that actually proves your point. Hell, the anime explicitly shows Polnareff is not only seeing The Hanged Man move, he's explicitly following him entirely.
The 2nd part isn't even egregious because the manga has them dead ass hugging Polnareff and the Anime only barely has them any further and Silver Chariot would kill them trying to attack The Hanged Man.
Neither really proves your point as much as you think it does, Polnareff can see it move and can also react to it, it works both ways and thus he can deal with Lightspeed opponents and go FTL in all but movement.

So in other words. The entire fight with them figuring out a way to narrow down Hanged Man to one path and knowing said path was just them playing make-believe against an opponent they could beat at any time.

Hanged Man had basically no advantages against a guy who both has a Stand fast enough to cut light midway of traveling AND can see where he’s moving from the start.

Really can’t believe anyone would still say that after this particular panel I already posted of Hanged Man dancing circles around both Polnareff and Kakyoin and them unable to do anything because they can’t keep up with him and don’t know where he will move to even when he’s just inches next to them.

Why are you even treating the anime as taking precedence over Araki’s own original work? Anime has Kars confirmed to have aim-dodged Stronheim’s UV beam too.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

personally i just see it that with extreme difficulty stand users can perceive stuff at those speeds, it’s why Pol only ever does it the one time. Going off the manga it very much looks like just after the truck crashes he is able to briefly follow the beam. Rohan is sort of the weird one but I forgot Vanilla Ice has a similar reaction feat too.

 

[Astaro]

Rohan’s just a freak. He can react to Crazy Diamond for the same reason he can keep up with reality around him speeding up to infinity with just his own speed to keep up manga deadlines. He just does. Lol

For Vanilla Ice, he is also a superhuman vampire

 

[OtherGalaxy]

so we agree on




FTL+ reactions Nukesaku

 

[Paxton]

so we agree on




FTL+ reactions Nukesaku

slower than wall speed

 

[Gordo]

Guys you can see a beam of light just fine

Polnareff being able to see it is what any human can do too. We can see lasers and the like. It’s a matter of striking faster than it (which Silver Chariot did do)

 

[Masterblack06]

heres the main thing

being able to tell your stand at what point to attack in order to intercept a beam of light mid travel is fucking wild and thinking it isnt is dumb

We can see beams of light but we are not able to see beams of light mid travel, we only see them after they've gone the length they can go.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

heres the main thing

being able to tell your stand at what point to attack in order to intercept a beam of light mid travel is fucking wild and thinking it isnt is dumb

We can see beams of light but we are not able to see beams of light mid travel, we only see them after they've gone the length they can go.

The fact that it has to be explained is fucking maddening...
The things people do to not give series kudos and try and add in pointless distinctions is ridiculous.