Game Ranked Skyrim Mafia

[Ratchet]

Ugh, and then you'll complain it takes to long for me to catch up.

Give me a sec, i'll get back to it.

No, I complain when it's valid. Come o Charlie, let's hear it.

 

[Chuck]

@Chuck relevant quotes are in that post as well so id follow the post.

2 pages behind this. Give me a sec

 

[Chuck]

No, I complain when it's valid. Come o Charlie, let's hear it.

I'm literally saying i'm looking for it now.

Damn, you're impatient

 

[Ratchet]

I'm literally saying i'm looking for it now.

Damn, you're impatient

It's either this or I start to flame you, get on with it. You shouldn't even need to look, if you have issue with my responses then why can you not just describe that issue?

 

[The X]

I don't like playing Mafia with you lately to be honest, and you're not the only player I feel this way towards. It's not fun and it's actually very frustrating.

So I'm not goi g to focus on the negative, but please understand that as of right now I'm trying to filter myself to not insult you, so I'm going to be curt with you.

I think Alco is scum. Beyond that, I have a scum lean on Mango and actually am in support of the Whicker direction too, though I should note that last game he was not town, so differences shouldn't be a smoking gun here.

I don't love what Asmo has been pushing so far. He has spent a lot of time explaining that he will be hereater and his angle on me doesn't really line up- just because you've seen someone do something as scum doesn't mean it's scummy. I'm trying to give him time to get into the game first.

I have you, Famg, Lethal and Charlie at Town. I am coming around to CP being Town, especially if Mango is scum. Magic null, Gram null, Ekko close to there hut moving in the right direction. No read on T-Pein.

Not really sure why you're trying to bring in emotional reasoning here? If you for a personal issue, you are always free to message me and I'd love to work things out. However, besides Melkor's game (where I was admittedly an ass), we haven't had any games that should make you feel this way? I especially have done nothing this game to have you 'holding back insults' at this point in time. I think these first two paragraphs are unnecessary and if you truly feel this way, then I do apologize.

You think Alco is wolf because he wouldn't answer you and then voted a you, yeah?

Where I've read up to, Mango hasn't really done much, so I feel that's a bit of a low hanging fruit for you to want to go after. Why is he wolf?

So you agree with Whicker, but I feel your last sentence on him kind of fence sits and allows you a way out on him if ever needed.

I actually have liked what Assmo has had to say about your slot. There is SOME hesitation on him trying to sheep/pocket me.

How have you progressed your Ekko read to almost town? Where I'm at, you seem fairly confident he is wolf.

 

[The X]

Okay I'll just say nothing then.

Ekko I think there are some issues with your process here - you're tunnelling and not even really giving me a fair shake. If you're town you're making it very hard for me to see.

This is where I'm currently at on page eleven, which was three hours ago? Going from 'it's very hard to see you as town' to 'I'm almost there seeing him as town' seems like a big read progression.

 

[Whicker]

Hey all. I've just skimmed so far since I got off last night. I'll be busy this evening, but I'll do my best to catch up more thoroughly tonight.

I get why I'm being sus'd off of being different from last game, but 1. my activity last game involved a much lengthier catch-up, 2. I haven't yet had time to dig into anything deep, and 3. I wasn't town last game so I had tried significantly harder to look townie.

Lethal seems to be playing similarly to last game but everyone town reads him here? I think his stance on Magic is good.

Surface level I still like Ratchet. Aersoldorf seems consistent with the one game I played with him so far. I also town read Aurelian

 

[Chuck]

Like for example

but this fails to consider that I've made several attempts to defend the initial comment - including for example the suggestion that I've coached him. I'm not asking to be town read from it, but I think it's a strange thing to argue against me because there is no real agenda at play here (obviously only I truly know whether there is or not). It just doesn't make much sense - if you disagree with it then why are you not attacking the defence I've made of it, instead of giving me a layup here

Like... Saying xyz sounds as if he's coached in scum pm (or whatever was said exactly) is basically saying you think xyz is scum. Welp, if he's town and you're scum, your agenda would be something like throwing suspicion on him and hoping for easy mislynch. Except i Fang is far from a newbie so this whole comment felt little bit out nowhere to me to begin with. You changed your opinion later, sure but that's now what you're talking about.

I don't understand how you don't understand why people have issue with that.

I've considered this and came away with the impression that it actually lines up with you being an indie of some sort - the lack of reading suggests a lack of motivation, and the argument you made contains neither the positional care you'd have as scum, and the tendency you have as town to hold your cards closer to your chest to make a more measured read afterwards.

And then i saw indie hunting .-.

You're saying he's no motivation and doesn't read the thread but if that was the case, then how would this conversation between 2 of you took place? If he's not reading, he would bring up shet of quotes. If he's not motivated, he wouldn't start argument with you out od nowhere.

If anything, he's reading and he is motivated so going by your own logic, he should be scum aka mafia. So why you're calling him indie instead?

Let me catch up first. I'd like to read missing pages before EoD

 

[Ratchet]

Not really sure why you're trying to bring in emotional reasoning here? If you for a personal issue, you are always free to message me and I'd love to work things out. However, besides Melkor's game (where I was admittedly an ass), we haven't had any games that should make you feel this way? I especially have done nothing this game to have you 'holding back insults' at this point in time. I think these first two paragraphs are unnecessary and if you truly feel this way, then I do apologize.

The Melkor game was the tipping point for me and in all honestly talking it out privately isn't going to help. Let's move on.

You think Alco is wolf because he wouldn't answer you and then voted a you, yeah?

No, his vote on me actually has little to do with it by itself. My vote came because he first resisted explaining himself on a read, then offered an explanation that didn't really explain why he held that read here, and then joined the wagon once it was positionally more safe for him to do so, citing what reads to me as absolute nonsense - Ekko being "disingenuous" was never the charge. Go back and read that post where he voted again, it reeks of finding an excuse to join a wagon. It's so roundabout. That's why I think he's scum X.

Where I've read up to, Mango hasn't really done much, so I feel that's a bit of a low hanging fruit for you to want to go after. Why is he wolf?

"low hanging fruit" is such a terrible buzzword and I wish people would stop being afraid of suspecting these slots. I think he's scum because every time he has been town and disengaged he has made a genuine effort to play. Here he has leaned far too heavily into gimmicks to mask a lack of substance and his pushes are so arbitrary and random that it feels like he's just posting for the sake of it. He has one good post, where he had a long post of reads, and even that is only good in comparison to the rest.

Like this is the issue. Imagine I'm town here - I am, but just don't argue it for a second and imagine I am, why is anything I've done so far I've scummy? Is having Mango in scum leans really something you think is impossible to come from me as town? Really????

So you agree with Whicker, but I feel your last sentence on him kind of fence sits and allows you a way out on him if ever needed.

I fence sit because I don't have strong feelings on it. I won't get in the way of the wagon because of this, but I also won't support it at least until he has come back to the thread and started posting again.

I actually have liked what Assmo has had to say about your slot. There is SOME hesitation on him trying to sheep/pocket me.

Well of course you have - he endorses your beliefs. The problem is you haven't really analysed what he's saying is scummy - he has used one scum player 3 years ago mentioning that talking about availability is a scum tell because he did the same thing as the totality of his argument, and then proceeded to read my slot from there. There has been no wider analysis of my play, no attempt to consider that the talking point I raised is actually a valid scum tell for a reason. He's an 11 year veteran. Please, do tell me what part of this you're liking and please don't just tell me it's because you agree with it.

How have you progressed your Ekko read to almost town? Where I'm at, you seem fairly confident he is wolf.

I've talked about this as you'll see when you catch up - I've seen just enough for him to move him towards Null. I wouldn't say almost town, he still has a lot of work to do to get there, but he's trending up.

 

[Chuck]

took

Take

would

Wouldn't

od

Of

Damn, i feel sorry for y'all reading my posts

 

[The X]

@CraigPelton it was this sequence. in his first post he said he had identified aurelian and if bpd is town to drop it because he doesn't want TvT dragging down the thread. so in that post it was an 'if you're town', which is fair enough.

in the subsequent posts bpd continues arguing with aurelian/slight pushing him and yet it doesn't actually change ekko's thoughts whatsoever and he grows more adamant it's TvT. he's not even saying why he finds bpd town for any of this(until i asked) just repeatedly calling it TvT and saying it's bad. the progression for the read isn't there at all, there was nothing there that would make him think bpd is town nor does he mention anything yet he's stuck calling it TvT. from a town perspective id imagine there would be some progression there or at least a comment about why bpd looks town in the back and forth but he was just stuck on repeat.

then there's the leadership style he's inserted himself in. he's done better lately in games. on page 1 i asked him not to clog the thread. he said he hadn't been doing that in recent games. he then starts doing it, trying to take control and the reins, and being in the forefront saying he's going back to elden ring/GOT style(btw both of which weren't exactly great games by him from all accounts and i remember him and tpein just tunneling the fuck out of me as town in that game because i claimed a purple faction). as scum it makes sense for him to be more at the forefront to try to dictate the way day goes.

also just looking over his posts again i dont like how he just said gramm can go if he doesnt cooperate with him. he did the same with you and ratchet touched on this too. he knows that neither of you will cooperate with him and it isn't alignment indicative but it gives him an excuse to push you down the line for shit that doesn't actually give your alignment.


if anyone wants me to explain the whicker case i can do so as well.

i'll read back from like halfway through the thread from where i was, but i didn't find ratchet scummy and thought he looked town from where i was. his play here isn't really similar to what i saw from him in jkk.

I feel like I should comment on this post considering Ekko's progression on my slot is the reason why Magic is after Ekko. I also have some issues with what Magic said.

You'll see something I don't like right off the bat with the bolded part. I genuinely tried my best early on to disengage with Fang because I didn't think it would be productive to anyone to continue. I specifically made a post (post 92) replying to Ekko saying 'I am trying to disengage with Fang', which Magic liked. So for Magic to say I continued to argue with Fang, and to go even further and say I was slight pushing him (which I never did), seems completely done in bad faith and a way for Magic to try and control a narrative. Magic also says 'Ekko's mind isn't changed in the slightest' from thinking me and Fang are town versus town. Does that also not imply that something from me and Fang should have convinced Ekko that one of us is not town? Just feels like more attempts at controlling the narrative.

Now, with Ekko's read on me, I actually don't have a problem. He did say IF I was town, I should drop my argument with Fang, who he read town. He never really said I was town during this time, just that he wanted to avoid any unnecessary conflict (I think this comes from a town Ekko). When Magic pushed Ekko on his town read on me (which Ekko never gave), that's when Ekko came out with what I felt like a gun to head town read on me, and I didn't have a problem with that. I don't like how Magic is trying to still push the narrative that Ekko's progression and town read on me is somehow indicative to him being wolf.

On Ekko being a leader, I have no issue with that play. I found him super easy as town in Elden Ring and I do think he's town in this game. I don't like how Magic is being dismissive of Ekko here just because he deems the games that Ekko adopted this play style as being not good games by Ekko. I think this is an attempt to discredit what Ekko is doing this game.

 

[The X]

The Melkor game was the tipping point for me and in all honestly talking it out privately isn't going to help. Let's move on.
No, his vote on me actually has little to do with it by itself. My vote came because he first resisted explaining himself on a read, then offered an explanation that didn't really explain why he held that read here, and then joined the wagon once it was positionally more safe for him to do so, citing what reads to me as absolute nonsense - Ekko being "disingenuous" was never the charge. Go back and read that post where he voted again, it reeks of finding an excuse to join a wagon. It's so roundabout. That's why I think he's scum X.
"low hanging fruit" is such a terrible buzzword and I wish people would stop being afraid of suspecting these slots. I think he's scum because every time he has been town and disengaged he has made a genuine effort to play. Here he has leaned far too heavily into gimmicks to mask a lack of substance and his pushes are so arbitrary and random that it feels like he's just posting for the sake of it. He has one good post, where he had a long post of reads, and even that is only good in comparison to the rest.

Like this is the issue. Imagine I'm town here - I am, but just don't argue it for a second and imagine I am, why is anything I've done so far I've scummy? Is having Mango in scum leans really something you think is impossible to come from me as town? Really????
I fence sit because I don't have strong feelings on it. I won't get in the way of the wagon because of this, but I also won't support it at least until he has come back to the thread and started posting again.
Well of course you have - he endorses your beliefs. The problem is you haven't really analysed what he's saying is scummy - he has used one scum player 3 years ago mentioning that talking about availability is a scum tell because he did the same thing as the totality of his argument, and then proceeded to read my slot from there. There has been no wider analysis of my play, no attempt to consider that the talking point I raised is actually a valid scum tell for a reason. He's an 11 year veteran. Please, do tell me what part of this you're liking and please don't just tell me it's because you agree with it.
I've talked about this as you'll see when you catch up - I've seen just enough for him to move him towards Null. I wouldn't say almost town, he still has a lot of work to do to get there, but he's trending up.

I will get to this later, I am still trying to catchup.

 

[Ratchet]

Like... Saying xyz sounds as if he's coached in scum pm (or whatever was said exactly) is basically saying you think xyz is scum.

Yes, I initially had a scum read on Fang. This isn't the point being contested at all, so what does this add that makes you think I'm scum Charlie?

Except i Fang is far from a newbie so this whole comment felt little bit out nowhere to me to begin with. You changed your opinion later, sure but that's now what you're talking about.

I don't understand how you don't understand why people have issue with that.

So your position is that because Fang isn't new, he wouldn't need coaching, yes? Because I've just been scum with him - he was coached. He will admit it, Gram will admit it, Cal if he were in this game would admit it. So given that he obviously needed coaching, and that he historically has been caught fairly easily when scum here (bar one game) can you explain to me what the issue you have with the remark I made again? Now you have new information so how does this affect you read of the situation?

And then i saw indie hunting .-.

That's not Indie hunting by any stretch. I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were scum, and I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were town. By abduction, he can only be Indie there, yes? I'm not going out of my way to get there, I'm simply taking information available to me and making a conclusion that feels natural. And frankly, I'm not even attached to the read - I have him Null!
Now it's your turn. What hunting am I doing there Charlie? Because you've just taken me mentioning that I think one player might be indie and tried to ascribe scum motivation to it - in the form of hunting Indies. Well I clearly haven't only been hunting for Indies this game have I, which is why "indie hunting" is a scum tell in the first place. So we cross that out. So what, the mention if a player being suspected Indie is scummy now? Is that your position charlie?

You're saying he's no motivation and doesn't read the thread but if that was the case, then how would this conversation between 2 of you took place? If he's not reading, he would bring up shet of quotes. If he's not motivated, he wouldn't start argument with you out od nowhere.

Okay, let me correct you - he said he hadn't read the thread and did the slightest of skims. So it's not me saying g he can't have read and he actually has, it's him. How does that affect your read of the situation, hmm? Because clearly you've misread it somewhere. I don't know how, but you have.

I don't really agree with your motivation angle. I can acknowledge that there are better ideas that trying to argue with me of you don't want to play as I'm sure you can currently attest to, but my indie thing wasn't ever that well baked or established anyway. It was just a thought that came to mind! It doesn't mean it can't be the case, but sure, I acknowledge it harms my argument.

If anything, he's reading and he is motivated so going by your own logic, he should be scum aka mafia. So why you're calling him indie instead?

He could well be scum! But I'm not sure on that, because he'd be arguing with me while underequipped, which isn't the kind of angle Gram likes to make when he's scum. He's very strategically focused, so unlikely to sabotage himself. Now he can still be scum even with this, because who knows what the scum plan is, but it is reason enough to give doubt to the idea that he's scum pushing me while not having the full context of the argument. Hence why I don't actively scum read him. Does that make sense Charlie?

Let me catch up first. I'd like to read missing pages before EoD

No, you will answer this now.

 

[Ratchet]

I will get to this later, I am still trying to catchup.

Well I'm not going to spend my friday night wanting to bash my skull against a wall waiting for you to reply to me X. I don't know what your valuation of me as a player is but if you think I'm scum then now is the time to cross examine that, chances are we won't have a better time than now for this day phase. I mean if you're really going to lynch me day 1 I'm going to make absolutely sure you're doing everything you can to evaluate your read.

 

[The X]

Also starting to glance over posts so might need a bit of a break.

 

[Chuck]

Yes, I initially had a scum read on Fang. This isn't the point being contested at all, so what does this add that makes you think I'm scum Charlie?
So your position is that because Fang isn't new, he wouldn't need coaching, yes? Because I've just been scum with him - he was coached. He will admit it, Gram will admit it, Cal if he were in this game would admit it. So given that he obviously needed coaching, and that he historically has been caught fairly easily when scum here (bar one game) can you explain to me what the issue you have with the remark I made again? Now you have new information so how does this affect you read of the situation?
That's not Indie hunting by any stretch. I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were scum, and I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were town. By abduction, he can only be Indie there, yes? I'm not going out of my way to get there, I'm simply taking information available to me and making a conclusion that feels natural. And frankly, I'm not even attached to the read - I have him Null!
Now it's your turn. What hunting am I doing there Charlie? Because you've just taken me mentioning that I think one player might be indie and tried to ascribe scum motivation to it - in the form of hunting Indies. Well I clearly haven't only been hunting for Indies this game have I, which is why "indie hunting" is a scum tell in the first place. So we cross that out. So what, the mention if a player being suspected Indie is scummy now? Is that your position charlie?
Okay, let me correct you - he said he hadn't read the thread and did the slightest of skims. So it's not me saying g he can't have read and he actually has, it's him. How does that affect your read of the situation, hmm? Because clearly you've misread it somewhere. I don't know how, but you have.

I don't really agree with your motivation angle. I can acknowledge that there are better ideas that trying to argue with me of you don't want to play as I'm sure you can currently attest to, but my indie thing wasn't ever that well baked or established anyway. It was just a thought that came to mind! It doesn't mean it can't be the case, but sure, I acknowledge it harms my argument.
He could well be scum! But I'm not sure on that, because he'd be arguing with me while underequipped, which isn't the kind of angle Gram likes to make when he's scum. He's very strategically focused, so unlikely to sabotage himself. Now he can still be scum even with this, because who knows what the scum plan is, but it is reason enough to give doubt to the idea that he's scum pushing me while not having the full context of the argument. Hence why I don't actively scum read him. Does that make sense Charlie?

No, you will answer this now.

I am not even reading that. I said i'm not going into arguments before catching up and you responed with 7 paragraphs.

For now, do i think you're scum? Could be, idk. Null/scum for now

 

[The X]

Well I'm not going to spend my friday night wanting to bash my skull against a wall waiting for you to reply to me X. I don't know what your valuation of me as a player is but if you think I'm scum then now is the time to cross examine that, chances are we won't have a better time than now for this day phase. I mean if you're really going to lynch me day 1 I'm going to make absolutely sure you're doing everything you can to evaluate your read.

Ah time zones man, it's just the afternoon here for me. You go rip up the city man, you deserve it. Don't spend your night here with us losers.

 

[The X]

vote Ekko

liking magic more now and don't think ekko defended himself in a way that felt natural for him, his justification for his play around BPD is hard for me to square. also the belated town read on BPD for "taking his time to respond" feels like BS to me as scum are always going to be more careful with their responses.

Is this still how you feel?

 

[Ratchet]

I am not even reading that. I said i'm not going into arguments before catching up and you responed with 7 paragraphs.

For now, do i think you're scum? Could be, idk. Null/scum for now

I mean you're voting me or leaning there so yes if you're going to lynch me day 1 you're going to have to out some work in.

If you're going to tell me that my posts are too long then I have nothing to add to you to be honest, except I'd like you to explain to me how you'll be reflecting on your game day 2 when I flip town.

 

[Ratchet]

Ah time zones man, it's just the afternoon here for me. You go rip up the city man, you deserve it. Don't spend your night here with us losers.

Nothing so terribly exciting as that I'm afraid, though it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.