To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - One Othinus To Rule Them All

[Astaro]

Don’t even know what made him a Chad in the first place.

Killing Alice in cold blood certainly makes for a villain but not a Chad.

And him calling out the other Trascendents as wannabes was pretty cool but now hilarious with these recent events showing him to be a fraud to the real deal himself

 

[Paxton]

Accelerator after fighting any Transcendent for 5 seconds

 

[Top59]

Well, because of some spoilers that were passed to me on Discord that I don't know if they are legit.

It seems that Touma makes Misaka blow off his arm to get the dragon out, he releases it without limiting himself and the world begins to bend and distort reality, he stops being human and regenerates from damage, he moves at high speed and it is mentioned that he is at that moment the strongest in the world, Accelerator says that Touma is more powerful than him but that state can only last 10 minutes because despite the regeneration he bleeds out and there comes a point where he can't stand it.

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Paxton]

Well, because of some spoilers that were passed to me on Discord that I don't know if they are legit.

It seems that Touma makes Misaka blow off his arm to get the dragon out, he releases it without limiting himself and the world begins to bend and distort reality, he stops being human and regenerates from damage, he moves at high speed and it is mentioned that he is at that moment the strongest in the world, Accelerator says that Touma is more powerful than him but that state can only last 10 minutes because despite the regeneration he bleeds out and there comes a point where he can't stand it.

Take it with a grain of salt.

The Invisible Thing finally becomes the Visible Thing

 

[Top59]

The Invisible Thing finally becomes the Visible Thing

Yeah xd

 

[Paxton]

it was invisible up until NT22, where it became the Fish Eggs, it briefly "hatched" and tore apart the Queen Brittania, and now it has a complete and proper physical form

they grow up so fast

 

[Paxton]

 

[Top59]

Touma preparing for the rematches in the internet versus.

 

[Astaro]

js06 already at work with the Prologue and some of Chapter 1 out

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a more committed translator than js06 is for nearly everything Kamachi’s written which is by no means a small task

 

[Cryso Agori]

And beating them so it’s not just statements

I mean. Who has actually straight up defeated an MG with pure power, no trickery, no prep, no special equipment?

No one.

Touma literally lost and only won cause tnj.

Aleister got his ass beat and only succeeded in nerfing the mgs and killing zombie because trickery + AAA.

Aleister couldn't even defeat Nerfed MGs on his own and need Noukan with AAA to do so.

Accel only stalemated Nepthys

Coronzon's best feat against them was fighting equally with one and then being turned into a playtoy by all of them.

Even characters supposedly equal to them have asterisks.

Golden Dawn members at their peak can see MG level magic, but they need prep for their rituals.

Coronzon needs prep and rituals to cast MG level spells.

Transcendants need to use risk 4 and can't restore the world after they destroy it anyway.


Also @Paxton, can you stop with that "Othinus only destroyed 1% of the human world" headcanon? This is never supported, other than the Pure World and Hidden World, Othinus destroyed most of the world and its phases. The interactions between the four worlds and the phases+sephiroth trees hasn't really been explained yet.

 

[Paxton]

I mean. Who has actually straight up defeated an MG with pure power, no trickery, no prep, no special equipment?

No one.

Touma literally lost and only won cause tnj.

Aleister got his ass beat and only succeeded in nerfing the mgs and killing zombie because trickery + AAA.

Aleister couldn't even defeat Nerfed MGs on his own and need Noukan with AAA to do so.

Accel only stalemated Nepthys

Coronzon's best feat against them was fighting equally with one and then being turned into a playtoy by all of them.

Even characters supposedly equal to them have asterisks.

Golden Dawn members at their peak can see MG level magic, but they need prep for their rituals.

Coronzon needs prep and rituals to cast MG level spells.

Transcendants need to use risk 4 and can't restore the world after they destroy it anyway.


Also @Paxton, can you stop with that "Othinus only destroyed 1% of the human world" headcanon? This is never supported, other than the Pure World and Hidden World, Othinus destroyed most of the world and its phases. The interactions between the four worlds and the phases+sephiroth trees hasn't really been explained yet.

I'll let Astaro address that other stuff but I'm pretty sure that's not what I've said.

I never said that she only destroyed a percentage of the human world, I said that Othinus only destroyed a "fraction" of the entire cosmology, i.e. the human world/surface world/Assiah/all the associated Phases in it, whatever you want to call it.

We're effectively in agreement on this.

Moving on from that, it's verbatim stated that Magic Gods are limited to the surface world/affecting Assiah (both by Coronzon and the narration iirc), and same with the stuff about Phases also being (mostly) limited to Assiah, with a few exceptions (like wherever the fuck Aiwass sent Lilith's soul).

I'll try and find the quotes if I can.

 

[Paxton]

Remind me, how much have you actually read up to again?

 

[Paxton]

Also, to be fair, we have literally no idea how Zombie died, since it was off-screen.


Aleister's a true master of off-screen haki, I guess

 

[Cryso Agori]

I'll let Astaro address that other stuff but I'm pretty sure that's not what I've said.

I never said that she only destroyed a percentage of the human world, I said that Othinus only destroyed a "fraction" of the entire cosmology, i.e. the human world/surface world/Assiah/all the associated Phases in it, whatever you want to call it.

We're effectively in agreement on this.

Moving on from that, it's verbatim stated that Magic Gods are limited to the surface world/affecting Assiah (both by Coronzon and the narration iirc), and same with the stuff about Phases also being (mostly) limited to Assiah, with a few exceptions (like wherever the fuck Aiwass sent Lilith's soul).

I'll try and find the quotes if I can.

Othinus only destroying a fraction is what I disagree with. For one, your assuming that phases only exist in the "human world". When the human world has always described the universe in toaru. Phases exist in the sephiroth tree, and Coronzon uses the term interchangeablely with Sephirah.

Like I said, Kamachi has never said that Othinus only destroyed a fraction of the verse, Kamachi has said she destroyed most of the world.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Also, to be fair, we have literally no idea how Zombie died, since it was off-screen.


Noukan's a true master of off-screen haki, I guess

ftfy

 

[Paxton]

Othinus only destroying a fraction is what I disagree with. For one, your assuming that phases only exist in the "human world". When the human world has always described the universe in toaru. Phases exist in the sephiroth tree, and Coronzon uses the term interchangeablely with Sephirah.

Like I said, Kamachi has never said that Othinus only destroyed a fraction of the verse, Kamachi has said she destroyed most of the world.

No?

The universe and the "world" in that context aren't used interchangeably.

You yourself have argued this in the past.

The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

You checked the farthest reaches of the universe and all of the piled-up phases and you realized there was nothing new left.

(NT12 and NT13 respectively)

The human world is the universe + all those other piled up Phases.

It's not the entire cosmology/Sephiroth, it's just Assiah/the surface world that she affected.

That's what Kamachi meant.

Coronzon clenched her teeth with her physical body gone and her essence exposed.

(But even in this incomplete state, I can blow away about half the universe. It all works
out in the end as long as that half includes this planet!! For now, I eliminate the obvious
enemy. I just have to think of another way to individually destroy the Sephirah that
survive this!!)

(NT22)

I don't see why you're saying Coronzon uses the term interchangeably, when she specifically says that her blowing away half of the universe wouldn't affect the Sephirah.

So either

A. Coronzon is saying that the Sephirah would be unaffected because her blowing away half the universe wouldn't even reach them (because the Sephirah obviously aren't part of the universe, since it'd be the opposite).

Or

B. The Sephirah are within the "universe" and she's actually referring to the entire cosmology when she says that.


The former makes way more sense to me, although the difference really doesn't matter.

 

[Cryso Agori]

The universe and the "world" in that context aren't used interchangeably.

You yourself have argued this in the past.

Huh? no, no your getting it wrong, I mean that the "human world" i.e world that humans live in, also known as the surface of the four worlds is the universe, not the phases and other shit that exist outside of it.

The human world is the universe + all those other piled up Phases.

It's not the entire cosmology/Sephiroth, it's just Assiah/the surface world that she affected.

That's what Kamachi meant.

I disagree with this cause its never stated at all.

I don't see why you're saying Coronzon uses the term interchangeably, when she specifically says that her blowing away half of the universe wouldn't affect the Sephirah.

point to the analogy she made with Hamazura. And yeah? Destroying the universe wouldn't effect phases, I agree.

 

[Paxton]

Huh? no, no your getting it wrong, I mean that the "human world" i.e world that humans live in, also known as the surface of the four worlds is the universe, not the phases and other shit that exist outside of it.


I disagree with this cause its never stated at all.


point to the analogy she made with Hamazura. And yeah? Destroying the universe wouldn't effect phases, I agree.

Magic God Niang-Niang’s invisible scorpion tail—the collection of recreated sparks—was swept away and erased by the explosive flames. Just like the stars in the night sky were swept away by the dawn.

“I see. Coronzon lurks behind the Sephiroth, not the Qliphoth. You’re a demon, but you’re also a gatekeeper who never falls from the tree. I see, I see. You form your power from the laws of the Olam Beriah, not the Olam Asiyah! Yeah, this is interesting!! You can probably earn a participation trophy and an ‘A for Effort’ for this!!”


The pure elements did not exist in this world and they would never mix with anything else.
Just like pure water and monopoles behaved differently just by being a single pure thing.
Even if it did not have the perfect negation ability of Imagine Breaker, it could push the enemy away like a moving wall.
Gabriel controlled the same water anyone could use, so why was that archangel such a threat? This was the same.
The element was identical, but the level of purity was far greater.

“Don’t screw with me, you fool who refuses to break down. You are no more than someone who decided to stop partway up the mountain."

“This world contains as many phases as there are divine legends and religions. And the distance between each phase is not even. The rise and fall of civilizations and traditions affect the power balance in the real world. When you get down to it, fortune is the sparks that failed to become miracles. The spray produced by the contact and collision between phases has a shockingly thin but widespread influence on people. It affects coin tosses, the order at which dishes are served at a restaurant, meetings and partings, marriages and divorces…and even people’s deaths. If you see no direct cause for your daughter’s death, you should assume it is a spontaneous event caused by a gathering of the influence that so many people are unwittingly affected by.”

- A direct statement from a Magic God themselves that they draw upon the laws of Assiah, not Beriah, in reference to Coronzon utilizing the pure elements.

- A direct statement from the narration stating that pure elements do not exist in this "world", directly after said quote stating that pure elements are not accessible to Magic Gods, with Coronzon herself corroborating this by saying they only stopped "partway up the mountain", and thus don't have access to that.

- A direct statement from Othinus (a Magic God herself) stating that this "world" contains Phases.

(NT22, NT22, and NT9(?) respectively)

Magic Gods being explicitly limited to the surface world/human world layer/Assiah but being able to affect Phases despite Phases not being part of the human world (which you're claiming) doesn't make much a whole lot of sense.

“Magic God, you still cling to the surface!! So don’t think you stand a chance against my master who has crossed the Abyss!!!”
An explosive noise burst out.
But it was not the sound of the violent gale Accelerator had been trying to unleash.
This was less distinct.
It was an invisible power that covered every part of the world.
His vector control ability twisted it into a vortex that rushed toward Nephthys like a giant spear.

And here's Accelerator utilizing a power that isn't limited to the surface of the Four Worlds, given that he's drawing upon the Clonoth (which still actually "existed" at this point, it just wasn't properly "embedded" into reality as a whole yet).

...the embedding of which is later compared to Angel Fall by Coronzon in reference to the amount of reality distortion it would perform, since Angel Fall messed with the pure elements themselves, which again, aren't part of this "world" (universe that the story takes place in + other Phases).




And before you say it, we only directly see the effects of Angel Fall since the story mostly takes place on a singular planet, so saying it's only "planetary" in scale/effect despite the statements saying otherwise regarding the metaphysics of the series is... well, silly.

 

[Paxton]

@Churronzon Since you're lurking, post your almighty wisdom

 

[Cryso Agori]

- A direct statement from a Magic God themselves that they draw upon the laws of Assiah, not Beriah, in reference to Coronzon utilizing the pure elements.

- A direct statement from the narration stating that pure elements do not exist in this "world", directly after said quote stating that pure elements are not accessible to Magic Gods, with Coronzon herself corroborating this by saying they only stopped "partway up the mountain", and thus don't have access to that.

- A direct statement from Othinus (a Magic God herself) stating that this "world" contains Phases.

(NT22, NT22, and NT9(?) respectively)

Magic Gods being explicitly limited to the surface world/human world layer/Assiah but being able to affect Phases despite Phases not being part of the human world (which you're claiming) doesn't make much a whole lot of sense.

Why do you think those mentions of "world" mean the entire verse? Yes the world and universe are two different things but that doesn't mean that every instance of the word world is talking about the entire cosmology, world has also been used to describe other dimensions, the universe, and the planet.

The statement that pure elements can't exist in the "world" in my mind means that pure elements can't exist in the universe, not the 'world'. Othinus's statement is talking about the entire verse cause she brings up phases.

+
Despite what your saying, powers from another world never seem to scare or hinder MGs.

Like if we take the statements at face value, Gabriel's pure water should be > MGs cause lol-superiority except Gabriel and Heaven were destroyed by Othinus.

In the very statements you post a nerfed Niang-Niang only sees power from Briah as worthy as a participation trophy. And yes sure Coronzon was holding back, but so was Niang-Niang by virtue of the fact she didn't throw Coronzon hard enough to melt the polar ice caps.

Nepthys v Accel was a draw despite Accel calling upon higher powers and things.