To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - One Othinus To Rule Them All

[Paxton]

Why do you think those mentions of "world" mean the entire verse? Yes the world and universe are two different things but that doesn't mean that every instance of the word world is talking about the entire cosmology, world has also been used to describe other dimensions, the universe, and the planet.

The statement that pure elements can't exist in the "world" in my mind means that pure elements can't exist in the universe, not the 'world'. Othinus's statement is talking about the entire verse cause she brings up phases.

+
Despite what your saying, powers from another world never seem to scare or hinder MGs.

Like if we take the statements at face value, Gabriel's pure water should be > MGs cause lol-superiority except Gabriel and Heaven were destroyed by Othinus.

In the very statements you post a nerfed Niang-Niang only sees power from Briah as worthy as a participation trophy. And yes sure Coronzon was holding back, but so was Niang-Niang by virtue of the fact she didn't throw Coronzon hard enough to melt the polar ice caps.

Nepthys v Accel was a draw despite Accel calling upon higher powers and things.

I specifically don't think that those statements I posted are referring to the entire verse (isn't that your argument?).

>Magic Gods are limited to Assiah, this is directly stated by one of them themselves
>Pure elements don't exist in the "world", in direct reference to the previous paragraph where Magic Gods are explicitly limited to Assiah
>Magic Gods can affect Phases, which are part of this "world" (aka the surface layer/human world/Assiah), also stated by a Magic God themselves

Arguments of actual superiority regarding the Sephiroth stuff really wasn't my point (it's not as clear cut as that anyway).

My point was that Magic Gods specifically don't have access to such things (access to pure elements and whatnot) that exist outside of the "world" despite Phases obviously being in reach for them to affect.

So, if we put two and two together, that obviously means that "world" in these cases isn't referring to just the universe (that the story mostly takes place in), which is itself a Phase.

 

[Paxton]

Also, pure elements being superior to MGs but Gabriel dying isn't even a contradiction (you can have access to a power that's superior to someone but never get the chance to use it in a fight, because MGs are still superior to Phase beings even though the latter scale down from them).



And that's assuming Phases are considered another "world" in the Kabbalah sense, which is never stated to my knowledge.

In fact, it's quite the opposite, from what I've already posted.

And from what you've posted in the past, Phases are described as "other worlds" (regarding the knowledge of grimoires) in the sense that they're knowledge of other Phases.



Obviously, context is clearly important whenever "world" is used, that we both agree on.

 

[Paxton]

And are we seriously arguing a lack of environmental destruction to argue characters aren't actually hitting with X amounts of force?


That's not how this series, or any series works for that matter.

 

[Cryso Agori]

And are we seriously arguing a lack of environmental destruction to argue characters aren't actually hitting with X amounts of force?


That's not how this series, or any series works for that matter.

my point was that we can't take Coronzon > MG at face value because both were holding back in their fight.

 

[Paxton]

my point was that we can't take Coronzon > MG at face value because both were holding back in their fight.

Arguments of actual superiority regarding the Sephiroth stuff really wasn't my point (it's not as clear cut as that anyway).

My point was that Magic Gods specifically don't have access to such things (access to pure elements and whatnot) that exist outside of the "world" despite Phases obviously being in reach for them to affect.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Also Coronzon's dura is weird cause she takes damage against MGs but her body isn't really damaged by Accel's smashing a galaxy-level force into her body.

Then again that force was meant to push out her soul so maybe it only effected the soul.

 

[Paxton]

Technically speaking, I don't recall if Coronzon was holding back in their fight.

She's limited in the surface world/layer/Assiah, yeah, but I'm pretty sure she was actually trying somewhat.

 

[Paxton]

Also Coronzon's dura is weird cause she takes damage against MGs but her body isn't really damaged by Accel's smashing a galaxy-level force into her body.

Then again that force was meant to push out her soul so maybe it only effected the soul.

Why is this a contradiction?

Galaxy-level force is below Magic Gods being still capable of destroying the "world" even when nerfed.

If we're assuming nerfed MGs are only planet level, then World Rejector land would only have consisted of a singular planet, if they were referring to the planet in that case.

 

[Paxton]

Nerfed MGs being able to destroy the world (Assiah/the human world/all the piled up Phases) but be unable to recreate it is almost exactly the same shit Risk 4 Transcendents are stated to be capable of, given that both parties lack Phase manipulation to recreate it.

By splitting up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the world whenever we move an arm or leg.

- NT12

Reminder: the second nerf from Aleister doesn't actually weaken them any further, it just removes their immortality/Phase manipulation.

(I think this is the right quote, but if it isn't, whoops)

The irritating thing for them is that they can destroy everything with ease, but they can’t remake it all afterwards. They’re so reluctant to play their one and only card that they were even caught in Othinus’s destruction of the world and killed. (Because if the Transcendents had killed Othinus in that dark space, they couldn’t have remade the world like she did.)

- GT6 afterword

TLDR: "world" in the context of Magic Gods almost always refers to Assiah (or in other words, the universe + all the other piled up Phases), and not the entire cosmology.

 

[Trytostopme]

Who cares about phases, Crowley said that those are toys for mages...

 

[Paxton]

True.

 

[Paxton]

"If you were to fight Othinus at full power again, would you lose?"

 

[Paxton]

Spoiler: RT22 spoiler

 

[Top59]

Taking away the power levelzzz a bit, if the spoilers turn out to be true, Touma killed civilians as a side effect of his attacks and almost destroyed the planet by taking a simple step using that power.

Our boy is no longer a moralist?

 

[Paxton]

Taking away the power levelzzz a bit, if the spoilers turn out to be true, Touma killed civilians as a side effect of his attacks and almost destroyed the planet by taking a simple step using that power.

Our boy is no longer a moralist?

?

 

[Top59]

?

I was reading the spoilers that a group in Spanish from ToAru released, and it was almost the same as the spoilers in English except that they commented that in one part Touma by mistake when taking a step almost exploded the planet and that the attack he used to erase space also killed civilians who had nothing to do with it, obviously they are leaks and may be false.

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[Paxton]

Well, for something hyped up as being above MGs, destroying the planet is certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Taking away the power levelzzz a bit, if the spoilers turn out to be true, Touma killed civilians as a side effect of his attacks and almost destroyed the planet by taking a simple step using that power.

Our boy is no longer a moralist?

Spoiler

The dragon commands all living things, and inorganic matter. Therefore, Touma commands the world to recover from every attack. The Dragon cuts the hospital in two, but immediately the hospital recovers. Dragon also has a conceptual ability that causes any stray bullet to be erased from existence/eaten by the dragon, so the enemy can only attack Touma. And all attacks that target Touma will be absorbed by Dragon, and immediately analyzed. Touma's existence becomes so big/heavy that one step already causes spatial distortion, but if Touma were more serious, a step would cause gravitational collapse. And Touma uses magic superior to CRC/Anna Kingsford's level, using her blood to circumvent the punishment, but at the same time the magic is completely random, so even Touma himself is unable to control the magic.

 

[Astaro]

Kamijou clenched his teeth and squeezed his eyes shut.

And he used his own willpower to force them back open.

At the same time, something shot from his right shoulder with a dull thud. The translucent mass was very obviously something other than blood. After grasping the concept of up and down, it audibly took shape. It became a great maw lined with ferocious fangs.

“Fine.”

In other words, a dragon.

Kamijou heard a voice from somewhere. It came from inside his own head.

Another boy spoke clearly.

“I was just about fed up with him myself. No more holding back. If you didn’t do it, I was about to come out on my own!!!”

The boy spoke softly, the whites of his eyes dyed red from burst capillaries.

He sounded like he was casting a curse on someone.

“I only needed that right hand gone.”

He had summoned it himself.

Just once in his life, he chose to cheat.

In that instant, the ordinary high school boy ceased to be a mere Level 0.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Does that mean it/dragon king is touma's esper ability? And not just that but is also KNT or the real pre-amnesia Touma?