No, Gawain boasts that he could easily beat her in a conversation where they're trash talking each other. Which she replies to by saying that he's a dumbass, because Knights of the Round have the social interaction of elementary school children between each other.
This is not some in-depth discussion of their abilities.
...
You know, I legit despise how Siriel and SB somehow took Gawain's point towards Mordred as a complete joke that somehow isn't serious... despite the fact that the nature of the joke doesn't mean it's not based on truth.
The entire point of the scene is that while it was one of their "jokes", it's literally based on the fact that Gawain would have murdered the shit out of Mordred and despite Mordred saying otherwise, she never actually denied Gawain could do so. Joke or no joke, that's not in Mordred's character to allow herself to be put down if she fully believes otherwise.
... Because B+ is higher than A.
Only when overclocking Siriel, it's not permanent...
Even if one went with your silly argument that Artoria's STR doesn't include Mana Burst despite repeated statement that she needs to constantly use Mana Burst in combat, that would then mean that Mordred's B+ doesn't include it either. Leaving Mordred... still with higher strength.
Same as before, just suddenly going with Parameters now without even trying to take into account the differences in Saint Graphs...
Or literally how their canon fight went.
She's lower in specs. Which indeed, she is.
Mordred: B+/B/A/B/D/A
Artoria: A/B/B/A/A+/A++
Higher STR conditionally, higher Endurance, lower magical energy, much lower luck, much lower NPs.
Again, we are just ignoring everything else as per usual because again, they cannot fathom that Mordred is ultimately... not that strong which has been proven in plenty of respects including FGO(The infamous True Name Release that did jack and of shit to Xiang Yu anyone?)
She fights equally with Artoria. This is not a question of pure physical strength, which is what we were talking about.
Yes... fight equally... should we just continue pointing out how Artoria shitblitzed Mordred or in every other dialogue with another version of Artoria, nothing is ever stated or shown Mordred is even in her league.
What are you talking about? It was never retconned. Fate/Stay Night states that Artoria is constantly using Mana Burst in combat which is why she keeps up with otherwise physically superior Servants. Hollow Ataraxia adds that unless she uses it she has the strength of a regular person. That's not a retcon, the two statements are telling you the same thing; Artoria with Mana Burst is how she's constantly seen in combat. Unlike Mordred, who explicitly gets it mentioned and has a scene specifically dedicated to showing the difference between having it on and off.
Her becoming a proper Heroic Spirit would change nothing, because she already had a Servant's body in Stay Night.
Yes, a Servant's body that she can't even go into Spiritual Form which is the most basic things Servants can do...
Despairing at the violent end to her Kingdom, Artoria called out to the World asking for a miracle to save Britain. With the planet being accepting of the end of civilisation, the
Counter Force is not and, seeing her potential use, answers Artoria's call.
In exchange for the fulfilment of her wish, Artoria's soul would belong to the Counter Force, becoming a Counter Guardian in service to Humanity instead of a Heroic Spirit. Willing to accept any price, Artoria agrees, but unknowingly falls into an infinite loop of hell where there can be no salvation.
[26]
Her being a Counter Guardian under such a contract is extremely different than being a Servant recorded from the Throne and yes, it still carries over into Hollow Atraxia as she has to stop existing in that form for her to finally be put into Avalon and even begin to be in the Throne(Even if she's typically locked out).
A reminder that Jeanne D'Arc in Apocrypha was also a "Servant" despite basically having to be a Pseudo-Servant to truly manifest and thus also couldn't go into Spirit form.
There's no world where a direct reenactment of their legend, in the place where they killed each other, leads to anything but them killing each other.
Ah yes because somehow a "direct reenactment" that includes using their Noble Phantasms will somehow end with the same conclusion despite the fact it wouldn't...
I feel like Siriel again completely missed the fact that Alcides was able to avoid the worst of the Hydra Venom fucking him up despite that's what he DIED TO in legend and that it's not always an instant death for the Servant(Medb literally trained herself to attack any launched cheese at her on reflex, she doesn't suddenly choose to not block anything if someone launches cheese at her).
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