Fair post, I have nothing further to add.
Fair post, I have nothing further to add.I can but this would have to be me after getting back into detail on your interactions with the aforementioned players. Unlike Craig or Grammaton, you seem tonally and behaviorally as consistent within your normal town meta. Your interactions and arguments/debates with Ekko are at least at a glance, well within your standard range of town-play behavior. Same again with Magic, the topics of Lethal and BPD, etc...
Your conversation with Ekko on the topic of me.
Then eventually leading you to vote Ekko based around his motivation around your read of my slot and pivoting when Craig was involved which does come off natural and not manufactured:
A little bit of you with Grammaton.
Cubey are you going to do anything
how r u like as scum?
Charlie why could go for Alco when you have me at Null/Scum? Do you think I could be scum with him?Just saw that after posting. I could go for Alco tbh. He voted you literally after saying "hi" and after like 15-20 pages of nothing changed it to Ratchet when people started pushing him. Feels opportunistic. Or maybe he's new and doesn't know what to do.
Is Alco new to mafia?
You've used that to dismiss any defence I make as "well he can do that as scum" and you also haven't seemed to analyse any other aspect of my play outside of explicitly a scum motivated one. So no, not only is it not "demonstrably untrue", it's not untrue at all. If you can demonstrate this consideration that I'm asking for, which you've said you'll hold off on until tomorrow, then by all means do so.
Again, I know from experience that scum are more likely to approve when I make a bad argument
Not sure if any of you are familiar with gout, I've got an attack that has sprung up in my left ankle, just took a steroid, an anti-uric acid pill and a pain pill that's going to knock me out. Back in the morning when I won't be rolling on the bed in pain.
Well, yeah. You bus your scummates a lot from what i remember and he's barely active. So he'd be perfect candidate to throw under the bus.Charlie why could go for Alco when you have me at Null/Scum? Do you think I could be scum with him?
I don't know where you get this from - I'm not dictating terms, I'm asking you questions and for your thoughts on elements that I believe will help me establish how genuine you actually are with your read here. I don't understand why you think it has anything to do with you being able to suspect me, ridiculous statement to be honest.You seem to be under the misguided idea that you’re going to dictate the terms under which I can suspect you, may I ask why?
- With me you’re appealing to my past success reading you and a perceived sense of unfairness that I’m not considering
With BPD you’re appealing to your past relationship with him and turning the screws that playing with him hasn’t been fun - I don’t know BPD all that well but he strikes me as a conscientious sort (isn’t he a teacher also?) who would probably be stung by that kind of rebuke
With Charlie you’re basically trying to mentally DDOS him with endless paragraphs when it’s clear he neither welcomes the interaction or is in a position to reply to it fairly when he isn’t caught up
The problem with all of this is that you're coming at it from a single angle "how could he do this as scum", with apparently no regard for how it works where I'm town. With you, I'm not "appealing" to anything, my interactions with you are not aimed so much at convincing you as they are establishing why you are wrong. Obviously you don't know you're wrong, I do though, and fundamentally it's not to help you read me, it's to help me read you. Do remember that I am a player in this game too you know, I have my own reads to develop.I’m not going to read your conversation with ekko but I assume it boils down to finding him a tedious waste of space
But you're not though - I don't believe you've given my slot any wider consideration at all. You've simply decided I'm scum because of my first post around Fang, and then every piece of subsequent behaviour that could suggest I'm town has been filed under "could be scum" and every other aspect of what I've said has been framed as exclusively scummy without any regard from what I can see as to whether it *actually* is scummy. The above is a perfect example - you've gone out of your way to find every aspect of every defence I've made as scum motivated as it possibly could be. Now it's entirely possible that behind the scenes you've done more work on this and simply this is the best conclusion you've come to - I'd have some questions there, but the problem is I can't even see any evidence of this happening at all.If anything I’m giving you every opportunity to make me doubt myself.
Question - is there any single piece of behaviour I can demonstrate that you won't just file under "could be scum"? Like what is your process to read me here? At what point do you ever decide I'm town?Well, yeah. You bus your scummates a lot from what i remember and he's barely active. So he'd be perfect candidate to throw under the bus.
Or i could just be wrong about you. He looks off in general.
I mean looked. Now that i know he just sheep people i'm not that sure about him anymore.
Welp, you missed "agenda" part in your quotes and that's why i quoted you to begin with. Basically you said this:Yes, I initially had a scum read on Fang. This isn't the point being contested at all, so what does this add that makes you think I'm scum Charlie?
And i responded withI think it's a strange thing to argue against me because there is no real agenda at play here
You literally quoted everything but the response to the sentence i bolded .-.Welp, if he's town and you're scum, your agenda would be something like throwing suspicion on him and hoping for easy mislynch.
Tbh, i might've confused him with Muugen on that part. So he could've been coached, gotcha. But again, the whole thing wasn't about you being wrong or right, but about thinking "it's strange" that people look into it. It's just weird.So your position is that because Fang isn't new, he wouldn't need coaching, yes? Because I've just been scum with him - he was coached. He will admit it, Gram will admit it, Cal if he were in this game would admit it. So given that he obviously needed coaching, and that he historically has been caught fairly easily when scum here (bar one game) can you explain to me what the issue you have with the remark I made again? Now you have new information so how does this affect you read of the situation?
Can you give me your definition of indie hunting then? For me if someone out of nowhere says something like "this person sounds like indie", it's indie hunting. It's D1 and i have hard time believing someone can realistically distinguish indie from mafia member without tmi. Unless Gram's indie Play is so characteristic it should be obviouse, but given that you're the only person who mentioned it and some people actually disagreed, i don't think that's the case.That's not Indie hunting by any stretch. I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were scum, and I identified elements missing that I would expect if he were town. By abduction, he can only be Indie there, yes? I'm not going out of my way to get there, I'm simply taking information available to me and making a conclusion that feels natural. And frankly, I'm not even attached to the read - I have him Null!
Now it's your turn. What hunting am I doing there Charlie? Because you've just taken me mentioning that I think one player might be indie and tried to ascribe scum motivation to it - in the form of hunting Indies. Well I clearly haven't only been hunting for Indies this game have I, which is why "indie hunting" is a scum tell in the first place. So we cross that out. So what, the mention if a player being suspected Indie is scummy now? Is that your position charlie?
I'd assume he read posts he quoted though. It's not as if he came in saying "idk Ratchet kinda sus". So he read enough to make a case on you. So he did read. Not everything, sure.Okay, let me correct you - he said he hadn't read the thread and did the slightest of skims. So it's not me saying g he can't have read and he actually has, it's him. How does that affect your read of the situation, hmm? Because clearly you've misread it somewhere. I don't know how, but you have.
Last thing i'd want to do as scum of any kind is starting wagon on you. Especially lacking motivation and without reading the thread. And i assume many people would agree. Take it as a complement.I don't really agree with your motivation angle. I can acknowledge that there are better ideas that trying to argue with me of you don't want to play as I'm sure you can currently attest to, but my indie thing wasn't ever that well baked or established anyway. It was just a thought that came to mind! It doesn't mean it can't be the case, but sure, I acknowledge it harms my argument
Or maybe he's just town? From my pov you assumed he's scum after he came for you.He could well be scum! But I'm not sure on that, because he'd be arguing with me while underequipped, which isn't the kind of angle Gram likes to make when he's scum. He's very strategically focused, so unlikely to sabotage himself. Now he can still be scum even with this, because who knows what the scum plan is, but it is reason enough to give doubt to the idea that he's scum pushing me while not having the full context of the argument. Hence why I don't actively scum read him. Does that make sense Charlie?
Don't you need 11 votes to get lynched? I'm pretty sure you're not even close. I'd rather get some alternatives. Like Alco thing.I don't think I'm being defensive for no good reason, I'm close to if not the top wagon. Now if I'm town here what do YOU expect of me in this position? Because to me, the best way to play this is to cross examine the wagon and ensure that some value is gained from my mislynch. It might not happen and that's great but it could and very likely could happen while I'm afk. So I have quite a bit of urgency here.
I'm talking about what you're doing after being caught though. Super defensive, bit agressive, "you'll feel dumb after my flip", all that.don't think this is at all like Batman. That game I was caught via day investigation and before that had *very* little pressure. If you're genuine, I think you're looking for ammunition to fuel your areas, you're not considering the information in front of you and evaluating on that
Only threated to do so .-.I haven't actually flamed anyone either
Okay so my agenda is to get a misly ch on Famg, wherein I start my saying he's scum and then in minutes say "no he's town". Really Charlie?You literally quoted everything but the response to the sentence i bolded .-.
Indie hunting would be hunting for Indies over Mafia...Can you give me your definition of indie hunting then? For me if someone out of nowhere says something like "this person sounds like indie", it's indie hunting. It's D1 and i have hard time believing someone can realistically distinguish indie from mafia member without tmi. Unless Gram's indie Play is so characteristic it should be obviouse, but given that you're the only person who mentioned it and some people actually disagreed, i don't think that's the case.
It's in the post where I said "I don't think Gram is Scum/Town because of ..."? Like I've explained this position in full Charlie, you've just read it apparently so how are you not aware of what I've argued?What are these "missing elements" you're talking about? You're being cryptic for no reason.
Yes, how long have you known me for now? When have you ever seen me drop something with "it's just a thought, nvm"?It's just thought that came to your mind yet you're explaining it in like 4 paragraphs instead of saying something like "it's just a thought, nvm".
I didn't say the last part at all, and you're comparing apples to oranges. There is a significant difference between being caught outright and this - my posting in Batman was to buy at most one more lynch. You've also in this post tried to downplay the level of suspicion on me so how are you both doing that and also equating my play to a game where I'm as caught as you can possibly be? Why is context not a consideration here?I'm talking about what you're doing after being caught though. Super defensive, bit agressive, "you'll feel dumb after my flip", all that.
Well, no. Unless you're confirmed as innocent child. Everyone other than me could be scum for all i know. But i'm pretty sure you meant to Ask if i'm biased. I hope i'm not.Question - is there any single piece of behaviour I can demonstrate that you won't just file under "could be scum"? Like what is your process to read me here? At what point do you ever decide I'm town?
Well I don't think you're scum for this but it strikes me as if you don't really commit to a town read almost ever here. I'm not asking bias, purely about what you're using to read me. Again if you see my responses to Ekko you'd know why that's what I'm looking out for.Well, no. Unless you're confirmed as innocent child. Everyone other than me could be scum for all i know. But i'm pretty sure you meant to Ask if i'm biased. I hope i'm not.
It was just a thing to keep in mind. If we lynched Alco today and he flipped scum you'd obviously look much better to me
It was but as scum he would know I'd have no trouble with it - very unlikely he puts himself on the line like that when he could just as easily let it play out.Chuck have the mafia chat suggested you offer yourself up as a target, so other people can bus you later? That case on Rachet - seemed like it was just based on hollow bulllets
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