Game Ranked Skyrim Mafia

[Chuck]

Oh boy. I'm going to bed after this one.

Okay so my agenda is to get a misly ch on Famg, wherein I start my saying he's scum and then in minutes say "no he's town". Really Charlie?

Haven't people disagreed before you changed your mind? Nvm, i'm getting tired.

Indie hunting would be hunting for Indies over Mafia...

As in if I said "we need to focus on finding the serial killer ASAP guys" so I use that to ignore links between partners etc.

And calling someone potential indie isn't that? Like, it's D1. We have no flips or investigations so we could just Lynch indie.

Nvm, again this was just another thing i found weird, too specific. Like i said earlier.

It's in the post where I said "I don't think Gram is Scum/Town because of ..."? Like I've explained this position in full Charlie, you've just read it apparently so how are you not aware of what I've argued?

It's a long post. I didn't get back to edit it.

...

Are we thinking about the same post? I can see you speaking about Gram not being mafia (and reasons behind it) but not about him being/not town.

Yes, how long have you known me for now? When have you ever seen me drop something with "it's just a thought, nvm"?

It's overexaggeration on my part.

I didn't say the last part at all, and you're comparing apples to oranges. There is a significant difference between being caught outright and this - my posting in Batman was to buy at most one more lynch. You've also in this post tried to downplay the level of suspicion on me so how are you both doing that and also equating my play to a game where I'm as caught as you can possibly be? Why is context not a consideration here?

Pretty sure you said to someone "just lynch me and use my reads after i flip town" or something like that. I'm not going to look for exact post.

Context is different but behavior is similar to me. That's just my observation.

 

[Chuck]

Chuck have the mafia chat suggested you offer yourself up as a target, so other people can bus you later? That case on Rachet - seemed like it was just based on hollow bulllets

Who tf are you?

 

[Magic]

Chuck before you go did you ever read my case or comment on it?

 

[Chuck]

Well I don't think you're scum for this but it strikes me as if you don't really commit to a town read almost ever here. I'm not asking bias, purely about what you're using to read me. Again if you see my responses to Ekko you'd know why that's what I'm looking out for.

Just move on and look for scum. Like, you really only have 1 inactive as scum read after 50 pages?

 

[Chuck]

Chuck before you go did you ever read my case or comment on it?

I did and did.

Tl;dr: It did give me a pause, ngl, but i could see him doing it as town too. I wouldn't go for him today based on that. I'd rather get him checked at night if possible

 

[EkkoLoJinx]

I wouldn't lynch Gram before Alco. That's not to say Gram can only be scum if Alco is, but the one issue I have with this being scum Gram is what I said to Charles - he would have had to make a conscious decision to go after me while not being able to defend his argument on the basis that he hasn't read everything, which doesn't feel in character to me. With Gram I need to see wider consideration though, as so far he has picked an angle and sat on it without appearing to challenge his stance which is not the process he follows as town.

So yes between his responses later this Day Phase and Alco's flip I need to see both of those things play out before I lynch him. Not going to do it Day 1, for the same reasons I expected him to refrain from lynching me Day 1 with this level of reasoning - the risk analysis doesn't match up.

just sound like one big excuse for em tbh

in the ooga booga world where i come from. me scum read me yeet. we dont complicate it

 

[Ratchet]

Ratchet what do you think of retro and balsamic

Null on Retro, leaning scum on Vinegar

 

[Ratchet]

Just move on and look for scum. Like, you really only have 1 inactive as scum read after 50 pages?

...no? I have, like, 3 scum reads?

Alco/Mango/Vinegar

 

[EkkoLoJinx]

If on the off chance that either Magic or Craig are scum, does anyone think there is potential equity between the two of them? I'm going over Magic and Craig's earlier posts in the game:

- subjects like my town read from Ekko
- Ekko's conversation with me, BPD, Magic, Ratchet, and Craig
- Craig latter coming out to ask Magic to vote on Whicker
- Gramm's distrust of Magic at least in the early day 1 portion and his response to Craig when he voted him

I'm shit at solving people but I still noted this as I go through their posts from earlier yesterday and last night

wolfy post for fang actually

 

[Dalton]

Vote T-Pein

I'm on page 8 of 17 and T-Pein seems all too happy to avoid any game talk by instead egging on Lethal and trying to get Ekko to join him.

When he is town he loves making unqualified, stupid susses and town reads like saying "scum is in this group of 12 players fr fr og"

HIs posting is out of character.

 

[Magic]

I wouldn't lynch Gram before Alco. That's not to say Gram can only be scum if Alco is, but the one issue I have with this being scum Gram is what I said to Charles - he would have had to make a conscious decision to go after me while not being able to defend his argument on the basis that he hasn't read everything, which doesn't feel in character to me. With Gram I need to see wider consideration though, as so far he has picked an angle and sat on it without appearing to challenge his stance which is not the process he follows as town.

So yes between his responses later this Day Phase and Alco's flip I need to see both of those things play out before I lynch him. Not going to do it Day 1, for the same reasons I expected him to refrain from lynching me Day 1 with this level of reasoning - the risk analysis doesn't match up.

I actually disagree(and I'm sure odo won't agree) but he often does just pick a target and struggles moving off of it. Not as the game progresses but it is a day 1 symptom and sometimes he just can't move on from that impression(I.e. nat in your game). It's nai.

 

[Ratchet]

Town:
Lethal, Chuck, BPD, Fang
Scum:
Alco, Mango, Vinegar

Rest are placed across the lean town/scum spectrum, will make a more elaborate list tomorrow.

 

[EkkoLoJinx]

I might be tunneling here, idk. I'll read what people are saying. After all i have sheep for my avatar

i dont think we shud yeet ratchet before magic/alco btw. whats ur read on magic/alco?

 

[EkkoLoJinx]

Im here and I’m reading. Just can’t make heads or tails of anything. I like ratchet’s responses to ekko, who, while active, just seems to rehash the same “WHAT ARE YOUR READS BRO” line of scumhunting at every turn. It usually leads into a clusterfuck as I’ve noted in previous games. Again, he’s talkative which is good but at the same time chaotic. Not saying he’s scum but maybe a liability.

thats demonstrably untrue

 

[Dalton]

My read of Ekko/Pein is that Pein is trying to pocket Ekko and it is Pein Scum / Ekko town

 

[EkkoLoJinx]

we'll eventually find out if thats the case but i dont wanna yeet tpein day 1

 

[Dalton]

why?

Seems like a typical case of two guys trying to out-rationalise the other in a way they typically would as town.

 

[Dalton]

we'll eventually find out if thats the case but i dont wanna yeet tpein day 1

I don't think you'll be surprised to hear that I do!

 

[Aurelian]

Spoiler: Way too many quotes, so spoiler tags.

I regret so much.

Fang is town

Vote Magic

NOT SOLD

I agree

you don't wanna milk him for town reads first?

like the bit about magic but tbf about ekko he repped in late

Aurelian I really wanna win this. Please stop asking shit questions. There's no reason to fake productivity with a reads list as it isn't really doing shit.

I voted you as you were mostly likely to give a good reaction to read from and see how others read you. That happened. A reads list won't generate shit.

A reads list is almost always just fake productivity for scum to hide behind.

Asking for specific reads is a bit different as its to see where people stand for future reference.

whats ur read on gram and cp

Probably not the same reason as you, but the way he was misframing events and using it to make his scum cases is what I've repeatedly seen from him as town whereas the little I saw of his scum game he basically offered up nothing he terms of direct confrontation or case building for his accusations. Aurelian was ramping up repeatedly against bpd(then myself).

Why did you have bpd town at that point?

Again why are you at a point where it's town v town. I get the town read on aurelian but you're just lumping.bpd in there too.

Neither Craig nor odo have said anything really to lean either way.

Ekko feels different from his recent games in that he's trying to take more of a leadership position off the bat and I wasn't a fan of him calling you/bpd town/town while bot recalling having a read on him.

Magic compulsively coaches everyone on his team lol

I don't agree that Aurelian feels coached tho

nope

whicker feels town. like what ratchet's putting down thus far.

You repeatedly said afterwards that it's town v town and to drop it. My issue isn't with the "if bpd is town leave fang", it's what you were saying as it continued to drag on. Bpd didn't even drop it after that initial post and yet you got more confident calling it town v town.

If I'm wrong you can show me.

ah you might be right there actually. going to vote?

The main issue is that this is how you approached last game as scum. Very first page you pinged Melkor's opener and then didn't really let up on him until after he was lynched and your team had control of the game.

I'm really considering it

this feels a bit forced because 1) magic did back off of aurelian 2) the phase isn't old enough yet to draw this comparison. also throwing down a vote on someone right away to get reactions is something magic does every game as any alignment.

the initial suspicion of magic felt genuine but not really liking the follow-ups now

1. I hadn't read past that post at that point.
2. Is the whole point, and I'm not aware of Magic's meta beyond one game.

I'm reading through the game and Aurelian's post pings me as weird so I comment on it. Then, I go back and start reading again from that point and Alco's post made me think of what Magic did last game so I commented on it.

i think CP is being ingenuine toward me, but its fine im not childish, i wont affect my play

i think cp's posts to magic were townie / read uninformed to me

his posts advocating for policy lynch if nothing better comes up however is like his posts about psychic in vegas mafia, where he said she shud be lynched if nothing better comes up

.... I haven't changed anything

Vote lynch CraigPelton

If we're talking about people's inconsistencies. This man did a complete 180 on my read on Magic because.... idk.

the bad faith is on his end, he didnt provide a reasoning! thats why its being dismissed

all he gave was a formula of lynch ekko = town win % increases (town loss % decreases)

he does, and im tired of u pretending he doesnt. if he doesnt establish why said policy lynch is beneficial to town he needs to drop it. surely u see the problem in him being allowed to do stuff like this with no repercussion? he can come in every game and repeat the same thing. policy lynching day 1 is the perfect cover for scum that arent able to generate content.

if you arent enabling it then dont respond to me until u get a reason from him as to why he thinks that wagon increases town's chances to win

I'm aware you didn't know that about magic, which is why I judged your post in terms of being genuine or not rather than correct.

I'm prone to give posts by newer (to me) players a surface level glance until someone offers a deeper interpretation to consider

I'll probably make this my last post for the night.

Ekko, what you're doing here is essentially stacking the deck against CP. Not by giving him some unreasonable standard of evidence to meet, but by demanding he meets criteria you know full well he won't bother to as either alignment. Him not explaining why he thinks you being dead is better for town again is not a position that comes from scum him only. You're fully aware that as town too, he won't just cave your demands on this, and is wont to resist them.

I also don't think you believe as scum he can't "generate content". This seems to be the latest buzz term used here - he's perfectly capable of setting up positions for him to hold and so forth.

if he doesnt want to elaborate or drop it as either alignment then he can get lynched lol. hes not some omnipotent presence thats above playing this game. if he presents a shit lynch option and doesnt explain it he can be disposed of, we dont need him, and we shudnt be promoting this sort of play in this site

ok now the way ur putting it seems that this policy wagon is not "lynch ekko to increase town's chances of winning!" but rather "lynch ekko to increase my enjoyment of the game!", which you probably agree with anyway so i get nothing by talking to you about it, but if thats the case then i respond to him, in the nicest way possible, to kindly fk off lol, regardless of alignment

speaking of "regardless of alignment". if he can do it as scum and i have no reason to think hes town then why r you defending it? do u read im town? or do u just agree with him? i cant tell what ur motive is but u can drop the good guy act tbh

lastly, if i vote u right now and say "lynch ratchet! it increases town's chances of winning and we shud lynch there if nothing else comes up!!!" then proceed to vote u and say naught more, what will be ur immediate response to it? surely i dont have to explain my position then? otherwise why is cp treated differently? cuz he made it a habit? that habit needs to be broken

Okay but I made the same argument last time. So the “it’s too early to make that determination” argument should have always been the case, right? Or if it seemed genuine to you then why would it be forced when I repeated my same thought process?

not quite

here you're just talking about the initial vote

here you're comparing him to the way he conducted the entire phase last game, which doesn't really make sense given how early in this phase this exchange happened. you don't even give magic a chance to fulfill or not fulfill the thing you think he's going to try to do.

this is why it feels like you're leading with a conclusion about something that hasn't happened yet to justify your push in the second post rather than just feeling sussed out by something in the first

I also understand why my about-face can be jarring for players unfamiliar with me but they aren't really an alignment thing for me. not going to go into self-meta since I think that's cringe but others can vouch that I can turn on a dime without clearly explaining my process.

No, you said "THIS is how you approached it last game". The "this" refers to his play this game. It was a comparison.

….. You’re just on confirmation bias now.

Him finding a reason to scum read someone early was how he approached last game. You say he can do that with any alignment but I didn’t know that at the time

vote ekko

whicker direction is good too but this one already has STEAM. Explained both positions already.

steam from who?

and what explanation u provided?

also im starting to think whicker is maybe town

What good is basing Meta off a singular game in which I was scum though. You can point to anything and call me scummy for it as your reference game is where I was scum.

That's kinda the point. Shouldn't you have since I went onto town read aurelian

If you knew he was in last game you should have known what he was talking about

This is weirdly stubborn over what is essentially semantics. Not in a scummy way, more like an aurelian way lol.

First off, these comments are made all the time in mafia games. "He was scum last game and did this" is said in basically every mafia game.
Second, I'm not making a push, I'm explaining my thought process behind one post. A meta based push off of one game doesn't mean anything, but one post is one post.

You are definitely going way out of bounds of the conversation.

Craig said my read on you felt genuine and then you said "eh, not it's not," and he flipped. Nothing what I said had changed by the time he flipped his stance

Why do you have whicker as town?

Steam in terms of actual votes.

The bpd town read read as fake. It developed from what you said was null into somehow a stronger town read despite him doing the opposite of what you asked him to do "if you're town drop this argument with fang". Instead he kept arguing and you started calling the exchange TvT more firmly.

That and, unlike recent early games, you are seemingly trying to take a lead role in terms of direction. You're not waiting for the thread to develop as you 'power up', you've been at a higher energy all game.

Can you quote the posts where im 'shaken' kind sir.

Sure, here are a couple:





My experience of town Magic would be no-selling a lot of the early speculation about your alignment, whereas here you seem more focused than usual on actually explaining yourself and convincing others that they're wrong about you.

Your town game usually infuriates me because you play in such an aloof way as if you're better than everyone else. Your hubris is notably missing in posts like these, which makes me suspicious of you.

Suppose this were true, what’s the problem? What is changing one’s mind indicative of?

Obviously changing one’s mind isn’t itself indicative of anything. It was the fact that it doesn’t look like to me like it came from him actually reevaluating. It seems to me he was more keen on setting up to follow on my potential lynch

And how did you make that distinction?

Vote Ratchet

Not jiving with fang post, ekko stuff is wallpaper

Because I hadn't posted at all and his thought process was allegedly "I don't like his follow up."

i dont feel like hes aligned with anyone given the fights he is picking, also he is voting cp


lol thats bullshit its only ratchet and cp
whicker and cp have the same size wagons i belive


i dont have him as strong town, just lean town. fang is the strong town
like i said BPD taking his time to respond to a very easy to debunk accusation is a more towny thing to do. scum wud instantly debunk that accusation imo

and he also voted cp with me

also BPD didn't intend to keep arguing, he dropped it and made a post signaling his intention to do so. the lean is still weak cuz he hasnt been doing much other than the aurelian stuff. where do u get the impression that i have him as strong town


is taking lead scummy? i intent to silence and cut all tvt and lynch scum. i dont have one way of playing town, and i eagerly urge all townies to try and take lead or be more vocal this game to avoid scum taking control!

lastly the leadership is not dictatorial. i am going to buddy and listen to my town reads within reason. i asked aurelian if he thinks my push on CP is wrong he can tell me why so and i'll move elsehwere. he didnt!

Basically up to page 12 or 13 but I was following a gut feeling with a pattern regarding Magic and Craig. I know I'm a bit of a broken record here with saying this but both Craig and Magic feel 'off' to me. Whether or not they have some kind of shared agency or equity, I'm not clear on but there are mutual anchor points where you can drop some info to glean from the two of them.

Craig and Magic don't directly interact or converse much with each other. Usually its Craig with Ekko, Ratchet, BPD, Gramm, or someone else. And its similar with Magic for the vice-versa. I mainly focused here on quoting and saving the posts from Craig, Magic, and other players directly interacting with them starting with Magic's own post where he reads and changes his stance on viewing me as town.

After that you have Gramm from earlier voting Magic and Craig posts asking why, which if I'm paranoid enough, could read as a soft attempt at deflecting the vote on Magic away. Then I kind of focused on the continuation of the rest of Magic and Craig's posts up to page 12 or 13 (cba to remember which one exactly) with a renewed interest in seeing how much any of their conversations either a) overlap on the subject of direct reads on one another and b) similar reads vs dissimilar ones on other players they mutually interact with since then.

 

[Ratchet]

wolfy post for fang actually

Why? I actually think it's a unique angle for him to explore, and he hasn't really attached some agenda towards achieving a flip on one of them to test it.

Read on Gram?