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To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Huh.

That's weird.

I thought Magic Gods were much stronger than Phase beings by default?
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
Hold up! Doesn't Othinus obliterate all phases simultaneously? How are they stronger than MGs at full power?
Yes, this is true, but the Guidebook says that angels exist beyond the Superficial World (the Sephiroth Tree), so they are beyond human influence, and the Magical God, for all his power, remains human. In short, although they are Gods within the human world, their level of soul is still human, which makes them limited by the laws of the Surface World.
 

Top59

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
I think we should wait for more quotes to come out to ensure the power level of the Archangels in their prime.

Yeah, there are clues that are stronger than what has been seen due to things like Curtana could hurt Aiwass, it also goes according to the wiki on a CD-drama Lucifer can destroy the world, but before making any statement it is better that there is something more solid.
In the case of Coronzon if something more concise is said.

 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
The guidebook says this.

「セフィロトの樹」はカバラの神秘と奥儀を表したもので、「生命の樹」とも呼ばれている。10個の球体「セフィラ」、3本の柱と22本の径「チャネル」で構成されたこの図形の上には、描かれていないもの=神の叡智そのものがあるとされている。セフィロトの樹は、あくまでも人間の世界を描いたものなのだ。ゆえに、セフィロトの外=異界にいる神や天使といった存在は、人間とは全く格の違う存在であり、たとえ聖人といえどもたどり着けない存在である。この考えは学園都市の目指す「SYSTEM(神ならぬ身にて天上の意志に辿り着くもの)」とも類似するものである。
 

Irradiance

Slightly Above Average
I weird take, considering that demons like Coronzon are part of the Sephiroth.
Existing outside doesn't necessarily equate to being superior in any case.

Volume 4 also mentions Angels being part of it:
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Yeah, angels are explicitly part of the Sephiroth.

It wouldn't make sense for them to completely transcend it like Ein Sof/Adam Kadmon would.

It also doesn't make much sense for them to apparently be stronger than Magic Gods... when the latter can absolutely shitstomp them in a fight.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member

Yes.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
I weird take, considering that demons like Coronzon are part of the Sephiroth.
Existing outside doesn't necessarily equate to being superior in any case.

Volume 4 also mentions Angels being part of it:
It generally refers to the fact that each world has its own hierarchy of worlds. If you study a little bit, you will find that the normal schema of the Sephiroth Tree is a complicated version of it, and there is a simple version that consists of many Sephiroth Trees belonging to a particular world. The human world has its own Sephiroth Tree, and the angelic world has its own Sephiroth Tree, and so on. And this quote and narrative directly proves that human remains human regardless of his power, and one needs someone else's permission to become something more.



“I see. Coronzon lurks behind the Sephiroth, not the Qliphoth. You’re a demon, but you’re
also a gatekeeper who never falls from the tree. I see, I see. You form your power from the
laws of the Olam Beriah, not the Olam Asiyah! Yeah, this is interesting!! You can probably
earn a participation trophy and an ‘A for Effort’ for this!!”

Yes.

The pure elements did not exist in this world and they would never mix with anything else.
Just like pure water and monopoles behaved differently just by being a single pure thing.
Even if it did not have the perfect negation ability of Imagine Breaker, it could push the
enemy away like a moving wall. Gabriel controlled the same water anyone could use, so
why was that archangel such a threat? This was the same. The element was identical, but
the level of purity was far greater.

“A human who rose to the level of a god? You mastered magic and then called it quits?”
Coronzon herself was the angel who resided in ZAX, the tenth Aethyr.

And she explained what that meant here.

“Don’t screw with me, you fool who refuses to break down. You are no more than someone
who decided to stop partway up the mountain. Whether you ascend the Sephiroth or
descend the Qliphoth, a human is still a human. Every last one of you is a puny little thing.
The true heights exist beyond your understanding, so allow me to show you what true
magic looks like!! My breakdown of all creation will swallow you up and you will be no
more, you impurity born of human deeds!!”

“I’m sorry to say it, but you really shouldn’t underestimate a Magic God, you freak.”
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.
Did she really?

She was going blow for blow with them (while being outnumbered), and I don't remember her even getting injured.
 
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Mr.OMG

Paramount
Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.
It was the other way around. Dozens of Magic Gods tried to kill her, but not only did they fail, but Coronzon was able to get out of the WR world. And all this despite the fact that Coronzon could not use most of his power.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Did she really?

I don't remember her even getting injured.
Naw she was super weak after they 'played' with her and couldn't get out of their grasps.

From nt 19


 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
It was the other way around. Dozens of Magic Gods tried to kill her, but not only did they fail, but Coronzon was able to get out of the WR world. And all this despite the fact that Coronzon could not use most of his power.
No it's the other way around, they were only playing with her. Coronzon couldn't get out of their grasps nor could she actually injure them.

The MGs > Coronzon
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Like despite the fact she only sees humans as animals, Coronzon knew she was fucked when she realized she landed on WR Earth.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
It is pretty strange that she gets toyed with by nerfed MGs when the barrier that she powered with her own mana is able to withstand "max-value" Magic God attacks.
Also given how she ranks higher on the Sephiroth.


By all accounts she should be stronger than them.