To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Paxton]

Huh.

That's weird.

I thought Magic Gods were much stronger than Phase beings by default?

 

[Paxton]

 

[One and Only]

Yes

Hold up! Doesn't Othinus obliterate all phases simultaneously? How are they stronger than MGs at full power?

 

[Mr.OMG]

Hold up! Doesn't Othinus obliterate all phases simultaneously? How are they stronger than MGs at full power?

Yes, this is true, but the Guidebook says that angels exist beyond the Superficial World (the Sephiroth Tree), so they are beyond human influence, and the Magical God, for all his power, remains human. In short, although they are Gods within the human world, their level of soul is still human, which makes them limited by the laws of the Surface World.

 

[Top59]

I think we should wait for more quotes to come out to ensure the power level of the Archangels in their prime.

Yeah, there are clues that are stronger than what has been seen due to things like Curtana could hurt Aiwass, it also goes according to the wiki on a CD-drama Lucifer can destroy the world, but before making any statement it is better that there is something more solid.
In the case of Coronzon if something more concise is said.

Lucifer

Lucifer (光を掲げる者（ルシファー）, Hikari o Kakageru Mono (Rushifaa)?, lit. "The Light-Bringer") in the world of Toaru Majutsu no Index is an important figure in Christianity. He is a Fallen angel who rebelled against God until he was defeated by Archangel Michael. Lucifer the Light-Bringer was said to be...

toarumajutsunoindex.fandom.com

 

[Mr.OMG]

The guidebook says this.

「セフィロトの樹」はカバラの神秘と奥儀を表したもので、「生命の樹」とも呼ばれている。10個の球体「セフィラ」、3本の柱と22本の径「チャネル」で構成されたこの図形の上には、描かれていないもの=神の叡智そのものがあるとされている。セフィロトの樹は、あくまでも人間の世界を描いたものなのだ。ゆえに、セフィロトの外=異界にいる神や天使といった存在は、人間とは全く格の違う存在であり、たとえ聖人といえどもたどり着けない存在である。この考えは学園都市の目指す「SYSTEM（神ならぬ身にて天上の意志に辿り着くもの）」とも類似するものである。

 

[Irradiance]

I weird take, considering that demons like Coronzon are part of the Sephiroth.
Existing outside doesn't necessarily equate to being superior in any case.

Volume 4 also mentions Angels being part of it:

“The so-called Tree of Life is basically a hierarchy of identities, separating God, angels, humans and souls into ten levels on a pyramid; this is the basic concept.”

“It’s based on the picture drawn out to show that God reigns supreme over everything. Well, simply put, this picture shows that humans can only reach a certain level, and beyond is God’s territory, so it can’t be invaded.”

“The number of humans and angels were already decided, thus in ordinary circumstances, humans are definitely unable to be promoted to become angels. In contrast, angels are never be demoted to be humans.”

 

[Paxton]

Yeah, angels are explicitly part of the Sephiroth.

It wouldn't make sense for them to completely transcend it like Ein Sof/Adam Kadmon would.

It also doesn't make much sense for them to apparently be stronger than Magic Gods... when the latter can absolutely shitstomp them in a fight.

 

[Paxton]

@Mr.OMG Do you have the quote about Virtual-On being canon?

 

[Paxton]

Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

Accelerator introduced a whole new tree into the universe that would distort the entire world more than the Angel's Fall, this feat alone is already more powerful than anything the Magical Gods have done, as no Magical God has interacted with higher worlds such as Olam Briah. Magic Gods can...

vsbattles.com

Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

Accelerator introduced a whole new tree into the universe that would distort the entire world more than the Angel's Fall, this feat alone is already more powerful than anything the Magical Gods have done, as no Magical God has interacted with higher worlds such as Olam Briah. Magic Gods can...

vsbattles.com

Yes.

 

[Mr.OMG]

I weird take, considering that demons like Coronzon are part of the Sephiroth.
Existing outside doesn't necessarily equate to being superior in any case.

Volume 4 also mentions Angels being part of it:

It generally refers to the fact that each world has its own hierarchy of worlds. If you study a little bit, you will find that the normal schema of the Sephiroth Tree is a complicated version of it, and there is a simple version that consists of many Sephiroth Trees belonging to a particular world. The human world has its own Sephiroth Tree, and the angelic world has its own Sephiroth Tree, and so on. And this quote and narrative directly proves that human remains human regardless of his power, and one needs someone else's permission to become something more.



“I see. Coronzon lurks behind the Sephiroth, not the Qliphoth. You’re a demon, but you’re
also a gatekeeper who never falls from the tree. I see, I see. You form your power from the
laws of the Olam Beriah, not the Olam Asiyah! Yeah, this is interesting!! You can probably
earn a participation trophy and an ‘A for Effort’ for this!!”

Yes.

The pure elements did not exist in this world and they would never mix with anything else.
Just like pure water and monopoles behaved differently just by being a single pure thing.
Even if it did not have the perfect negation ability of Imagine Breaker, it could push the
enemy away like a moving wall. Gabriel controlled the same water anyone could use, so
why was that archangel such a threat? This was the same. The element was identical, but
the level of purity was far greater.

“A human who rose to the level of a god? You mastered magic and then called it quits?”
Coronzon herself was the angel who resided in ZAX, the tenth Aethyr.

And she explained what that meant here.

“Don’t screw with me, you fool who refuses to break down. You are no more than someone
who decided to stop partway up the mountain. Whether you ascend the Sephiroth or
descend the Qliphoth, a human is still a human. Every last one of you is a puny little thing.
The true heights exist beyond your understanding, so allow me to show you what true
magic looks like!! My breakdown of all creation will swallow you up and you will be no
more, you impurity born of human deeds!!”

“I’m sorry to say it, but you really shouldn’t underestimate a Magic God, you freak.”

 

[Mr.OMG]

@Mr.OMG Do you have the quote about Virtual-On being canon?

It's all there.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.

 

[Paxton]

Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.

Did she really?

She was going blow for blow with them (while being outnumbered), and I don't remember her even getting injured.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Tbh, I can't see it seeing as how Coronzon gets turned into the MG's plaything when thrown into the WR timeline.

It was the other way around. Dozens of Magic Gods tried to kill her, but not only did they fail, but Coronzon was able to get out of the WR world. And all this despite the fact that Coronzon could not use most of his power.

 

[Astaro]

Did she really?

I don't remember her even getting injured.

By the time she got herself out of there, she was too beat up to even stomp Crowley from stomping their boot on her face

 

[Cryso Agori]

Did she really?

I don't remember her even getting injured.

Naw she was super weak after they 'played' with her and couldn't get out of their grasps.

From nt 19

It finally hit her.

She realized why Human Aleister had launched Coronzon into space and why Aiwass had intentionally lost and made his exit before they arrived at this earth.

What was it he had said?

“It is time you experienced the loneliness of Urashima Tarou, you mere debris.”

And there was one problem more important than the logic behind this.

…Unlike the proper earth where 6 or 7 billion lived, this earth contained no lifeforms, human or otherwise. Here, there were only the Magic Gods who had mastered the field of magic until they had achieved the title of a god. Only those true beasts who were satisfied so long as they could wield their extraordinary power without being a nuisance and who were willing to engage each other in unceasing combat in this eternally-regenerating prison where they could go all out.

And now they had found a new toy.

A new rule, never before seen in online mode, had been added.

The Magic Gods gathered around, licked their lips, and spoke up in unison. Just as Coronzon herself had wanted, they did not even attempt to hide their extreme cruelty.

“Looks like we aren’t going to be bored for a while.”

And.

“Abh, hh, abhahh…!!!??”

Somewhere in Academy City, a portion of the perfectly normal scenery split apart and an arm burst out. It sank down, rose back up, and then pulled out a face and torso along with it. At that point, several arms grabbed at the hair and clothing and dragged it all back down again.

“Ooahh!!”

Even so, that being had returned.

Avatar Lola Stuart.

And Coronzon within.

With multiple Magic Gods clinging to her like the sludge of a bottomless bog, she had taken one last large step to force her way back from World Rejecter’s shifted timeline.

“Oh, crap! We got carried away and played around a little too much!”

“Oh, dear…. This is not good. The crack has sealed back up.” A modified mini-China dress girl with pale skin and a sexy woman with bandages wrapped around her brown skin had been dragged up with her. Those two sounded panicked for once, but it was too late now. They had made so many compromises to reach that catastrophic paradise, but the door had already sealed up tight.

Lola gasped for breath with them tangled around and clinging to her.

And she sensed someone’s gaze on her.

Someone was looking down on her as she tried to gather her strength and stand up like a newborn fawn.

She held her leg above Lola’s head while she was pinned down by multiple Magic Gods and unable to move.

“This is a declaration of war.”

Now that she had decided to oppose Lola, she showed no mercy.

“I will take back my daughter. So wait for me in your lonely castle, you filthy bug.”

With that said, Aleister Crowley stomped hard on the Great Demon’s head.

 

[Cryso Agori]

It was the other way around. Dozens of Magic Gods tried to kill her, but not only did they fail, but Coronzon was able to get out of the WR world. And all this despite the fact that Coronzon could not use most of his power.

No it's the other way around, they were only playing with her. Coronzon couldn't get out of their grasps nor could she actually injure them.

The MGs > Coronzon

 

[Cryso Agori]

Like despite the fact she only sees humans as animals, Coronzon knew she was fucked when she realized she landed on WR Earth.

 

[Paxton]

It is pretty strange that she gets toyed with by nerfed MGs when the barrier that she powered with her own mana is able to withstand "max-value" Magic God attacks.
Also given how she ranks higher on the Sephiroth.


By all accounts she should be stronger than them.