To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Paxton]

It’s kind of not backed up, but I personally think Niang-Niagn and Nephthys were still needed but regained some power by the Coronzon arc based on their performance

Just after getting hit with Aleister’s nerf spell, yeah their feats are only about planet level based on the shit they were doing in World Rejector timeline’s version of Earth

So feat-wise they're only about planet level, but scaling-wise to Coronzon and the like they should be way above that?

 

[Astaro]

So feat-wise they're only about planet level, but scaling-wise to Coronzon and the like they should be way above that?

Nerfed by Aleister, about Planet level.

By the time of the Coronzon arc, Nephthys and Niang-Niang seem to be back to where their were with their own nerf spell by Zombie before Aleister hijacked it. It’s conjecture but I think the feats from them there back it up

 

[Top59]

How big is Academy City?

 

[Paxton]

Nerfed by Aleister, about Planet level.

By the time of the Coronzon arc, Nephthys and Niang-Niang seem to be back to where their were with their own nerf spell by Zombie before Aleister hijacked it. It’s conjecture but I think the feats from them there back it up

So then are Coronzon/Aiwass also only planet level or are the other Magic Gods only planet level?

 

[Astaro]

So then are Coronzon/Aiwass also only planet level or are the other Magic Gods only planet level?

No as I already stated, Coronzon’s at least = to Othinus and Zombie Spell Nerfed Magic Gods are too

 

[Paxton]

How big is Academy City?

Apparently 1/3rd the size of Tokyo.

 

[Mr.OMG]

How big is Academy City?

731 km

 

[Top59]

731 km

Km²?

Well the AC is a cirle, so is like 15.25 km of radius.

I'll see if I can calculate this:

In Academy City, where the school curriculum included esper development, the strongest esper in Academy City also had the strongest brain. Having accurately calculated all the air particle flow in the entire city before, Accelerator used all his thoughts to find a way to solve this.

Apparently when Accel made his plasma storm he calculated the flow of each air particle in the city.

 

[Paxton]

Km²?

Well the AC is a cirle, so is like 15.25 km of radius.

I'll see if I can calculate this:

Apparently when Accel made his plasma storm he calculated the flow of each air particle in the city.

MFTL Accelerator

 

[Top59]

MFTL Accelerator

Maybe (?

 

[Irradiance]

That spell comes from her power so she scales. It’s like saying Othinus isn’t universe level outside throwing Gungnir.

We both know that's not how magic works in Index. A regular human with the right ritual can produce magic capable of destroying the universe. Take the Golden Dawn magicians as example who all, with the right rituals, could call upon power comparable to magic gods, yet clearly weren't all constantly fighting at magic god level.

Different spells can have different amounts of power. This isn't Dragon Ball.

Othinus is universe level outside throwing Gungnir because she demonstrated universe level reality warping / phase manipulation and all her other powers are accomplished via that. I would, in fact, not claim that Othinus' crossbow is necessarily universe level.

There’s also that barrier thats powered by herself thats so powerful, it would require nothing short of the full power attack of a Magic God to bust through

You mean the barrier of the Queen Britannia that holds the Heliport Temple ritual chamber she needed to destroy the universe? The same barrier that can in fact not be only used by Coronzon but also by everyone else that makes use of that ship? Most notably of course the far below universe level royal family for which that barrier was designed in the first place.

And as mentioned above, Aleister has nothing on their own to defeat either Coronzon or a Magic God, needing support from the A.A.A or Aiwass for the latter

He needs Aiwass with vessel to defeat full powered MGs. Meanwhile the Aiwass without vessel, that is much weaker than that, actually stalemated Coronzon for a long time. So that goes completely against your argument.

Aleister only needed the A.A.A. against Coronzon due to Aeon compatibility issues.

Aleister also only has one spell that is universal by default (i.e. if not amplified to that scale by blasting rod) and that is the spiritual tripiping big bang bomb. Something which he for whichever fucking reason never used against neither Niang-Niang nor the Golden Dawn members he was fighting earlier or, really, any other of the enemies he fought in Britain. Maybe he was trying to do Touma the favor not to vaporize people. Idk.

 

[Paxton]

We both know that's not how magic works in Index. A regular human with the right ritual can produce magic capable of destroying the universe. Take the Golden Dawn magicians as example who all, with the right rituals, could call upon power comparable to magic gods, yet clearly weren't all constantly fighting at magic god level.

Different spells can have different amounts of power. This isn't Dragon Ball.

Othinus is universe level outside throwing Gungnir because she demonstrated universe level reality warping / phase manipulation and all her other powers are accomplished via that. I would, in fact, not claim that Othinus' crossbow is necessarily universe level.


You mean the barrier of the Queen Britannia that holds the Heliport Temple ritual chamber she needed to destroy the universe? The same barrier that can in fact not be only used by Coronzon but also by everyone else that makes use of that ship? Most notably of course the far below universe level royal family for which that barrier was designed in the first place.


He needs Aiwass with vessel to defeat full powered MGs. Meanwhile the Aiwass without vessel, that is much weaker than that, actually stalemated Coronzon for a long time. So that goes completely against your argument.

Aleister only needed the A.A.A. against Coronzon due to Aeon compatibility issues.

Aleister also only has one spell that is universal by default (i.e. if not amplified to that scale by blasting rod) and that is the spiritual tripiping big bang bomb. Something which he for whichever fucking reason never used against neither Niang-Niang nor the Golden Dawn members he was fighting earlier or, really, any other of the enemies he fought in Britain. Maybe he was trying to do Touma the favor not to vaporize people. Idk.

Yeah, Birdway did make a one-time use Gungnir iirc. One-time use in that everything and everyone would be dead after it gets activated

And I thought that most of the Golden Dawn were grimoires anyway? It's not like blasting them more and more would stop them from regenerating, + he could've just not bothered with it against Niang-Niang and the like because they were still just that strong even without Phase manipulation after getting nerfed twice.

 

[Astaro]

We both know that's not how magic works in Index. A regular human with the right ritual can produce magic capable of destroying the universe. Take the Golden Dawn magicians as example who all, with the right rituals, could call upon power comparable to magic gods, yet clearly weren't all constantly fighting at magic god level.

Different spells can have different amounts of power. This isn't Dragon Ball.

Othinus is universe level outside throwing Gungnir because she demonstrated universe level reality warping / phase manipulation and all her other powers are accomplished via that. I would, in fact, not claim that Othinus' crossbow is necessarily universe level.


You mean the barrier of the Queen Britannia that holds the Heliport Temple ritual chamber she needed to destroy the universe? The same barrier that can in fact not be only used by Coronzon but also by everyone else that makes use of that ship? Most notably of course the far below universe level royal family for which that barrier was designed in the first place.


He needs Aiwass with vessel to defeat full powered MGs. Meanwhile the Aiwass without vessel, that is much weaker than that, actually stalemated Coronzon for a long time. So that goes completely against your argument.

Aleister only needed the A.A.A. against Coronzon due to Aeon compatibility issues.

Aleister also only has one spell that is universal by default (i.e. if not amplified to that scale by blasting rod) and that is the spiritual tripiping big bang bomb. Something which he for whichever fucking reason never used against neither Niang-Niang nor the Golden Dawn members he was fighting earlier or, really, any other of the enemies he fought in Britain. Maybe he was trying to do Touma the favor not to vaporize people. Idk.

Also said a few times in the series that what one can do with magic comes from their power. Like Gabriel who can perform Astro In Hand because of how powerful they are. Magic Gods are the only ones that can destroy and remake entire universes. The only other is Leivinia who can do so for a one time attack using Index who has all 103,000 grimoires, the books whose power creates Magic Gods anyway

Remember it being mentioned that Golden Dawn Magicians have power comparable to Magic Gods with the only difference being they remain human and thus more limited. Some time after they were revived as magic copies by Coronzon.

And no, it was mentioned Aleister would struggle against Niang-Niang using just the standard Spiritual Tripping + Blasting Rod combo even while they were purposefully holding back for them.

With Niang-Niang, it was hard to tell whether she was joking or not.

…And she was apparently losing on purpose.

Not even Aleister Crowley thought she could drive off a Magic God without the support of a true A.A.A. and without help from Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass. It would be hard to pull off with just the Blasting Rod that strengthened the power of her magic to ten times what the target thought it was.

 

[Top59]

Well, this may be the craziest feat in Accelerator's reactions, so I would understand if a discussion arises, especially since it is a feat from the first volumes and that no one calculated it to date.

Spoiler: Calc

Accelerator created a plasma storm, move all air in the city and compress in a point.

The relevant thing about this is that in OT3 it is clarified that Accelerator in 10 seconds calculated all the airflow, both the new one caused by it and the natural flow

With a roar of wind, the sphere of plasma floating above lost its form.

“Wha-…?”

Accelerator looked up. That plasma had been created from all the wind flowing through the city being condensed into one point. The flow of that wind had clearly shaken for an instant. That had caused an error in the compression ratio which caused the plasma to be shaken as well.

Accelerator thought he might have made an error in his calculations of the wind, so he rebuilt those new equations. Unlike simple reflection, he had to calculate both, the vector before alteration and the vector after alteration which was a pain in the ass.

But Accelerator managed to perfectly revise that huge set of equations in less than 10 seconds. His brain had developed to the point that something of that level was no problem. In Academy City, power development was part of the teaching method, so Academy City’s strongest espers were also Academy City’s greatest honor students.

But the movement of the wind flowing through the city suddenly changed as if escaping from the supposedly perfect equations he had built up in his head. It was not a mere coincidence. It was as if the wind itself had a will and was slipping through the gaps of his equations.

The mass of compressed air above his head scattered and the plasma disappeared as if it were dissolving into the air.

(What? What the fuck happened!? There was no mistake in my equations. Those irregular eel-like movements were clearly not natural movements of the air!)

He wondered if he had gotten really unlucky and a actual wind user was using his power somewhere in the city, but that did not make sense as the irregular flow of the wind covered the entire city. If there was a wind user with the processing power needed to outdo Accelerator’s ability and equations, that person would definitely be designated a Level 5.

As I know that it is tedious for some to read all that, I leave only the relevant part here

But Accelerator managed to perfectly revise that huge set of equations in less than 10 seconds.

Accelerator thought he might have made an error in his calculations of the wind, so he rebuilt those new equations. Unlike simple reflection, he had to calculate both, the vector before alteration and the vector after alteration which was a pain in the ass.

In OT 5 it is clarified that Accelerator calculated the movement of each air particle in the city when he made that attack.

In Academy City, where the school curriculum included esper development, the strongest esper in Academy City also had the strongest brain. Having accurately calculated all the air particle flow in the entire city before, Accelerator used all his thoughts to find a way to solve this.

Here I already have the radius of the city

Well the AC is a circle, so is like 15.25 km of radius.

Now I need to know how high in the atmosphere it was controlled.

Seeing that in the Railgun manga storm clouds are seen.

Apparently those seem to be Nimbostratus clouds.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbostratus_cloud
Those can be between 500 to 5000 meters high, for conservative data management purposes, I will use only 500 meters high.

Altitude
500-5,500 m

With these data I calculate the volume of the air.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume
Air Volume= 365308320750.24 m³
Air density= 1.225 kg/m³

Air mass= 365308320750.24 m³ * 1.225 kg/m³
Air mass= 4.47502693e+11kg
Air mass= 4.47502693e+14 g

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15020308-500-the-last-word/

the mass of 1 mole of air will be about 28.8 grams.

Air mass in mole= 4.47502693e+14 / 28.8
Air mass in mole= 1.5538288e+13 mol

One mole of any substance contains about 6 × 10^23 molecules.

Air molecules= 1.5538288e+13 * 6e+23
Air molecules= 9.3229728e+36 molecules

Accelerator calc that in 10 seconds

But Accelerator managed to perfectly revise that huge set of equations in less than 10 seconds.

It is impossible for me to know what formulas the albino used since he also manipulated the air but at least need a calc to any particle.

Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+36 calc/ 10 s

Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+35 calc/s

In the case of this can be applied to his reactions, Accelerator or at least his field reacts within 1.0726192e-36 seconds, that is even much less of a yoctosecond.

Hypothetically with that it would react to things moving at 3.1 octillion times the speed of light at 1 meter away.

And maybe it contradicts when he hacked Last Order's mind, which would still be FTL but not as high level
https://www.fanverse.org/threads/toaru-feats-calculation.1231745/post-64444901
But on the other hand it is not even 1% of the calculation capacity of the Tree Diagram.

To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

Breakdowns of the Index series.

onelastforum.com

Result
Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+35 calc/s

 

[Paxton]

Well, this may be the craziest feat in Accelerator's reactions, so I would understand if a discussion arises, especially since it is a feat from the first volumes and that no one calculated it to date.

Spoiler: Calc

Accelerator created a plasma storm, move all air in the city and compress in a point.

The relevant thing about this is that in OT3 it is clarified that Accelerator in 10 seconds calculated all the airflow, both the new one caused by it and the natural flow

As I know that it is tedious for some to read all that, I leave only the relevant part here


In OT 5 it is clarified that Accelerator calculated the movement of each air particle in the city when he made that attack.

Here I already have the radius of the city

Now I need to know how high in the atmosphere it was controlled.

Seeing that in the Railgun manga storm clouds are seen.

Apparently those seem to be Nimbostratus clouds.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbostratus_cloud
Those can be between 500 to 5000 meters high, for conservative data management purposes, I will use only 500 meters high.


With these data I calculate the volume of the air.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/cylinder-volume
Air Volume= 365308320750.24 m³
Air density= 1.225 kg/m³

Air mass= 365308320750.24 m³ * 1.225 kg/m³
Air mass= 4.47502693e+11kg
Air mass= 4.47502693e+14 g

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15020308-500-the-last-word/


Air mass in mole= 4.47502693e+14 / 28.8
Air mass in mole= 1.5538288e+13 mol

Air molecules= 1.5538288e+13 * 6e+23
Air molecules= 9.3229728e+36 molecules

Accelerator calc that in 10 seconds

It is impossible for me to know what formulas the albino used since he also manipulated the air but at least need a calc to any particle.

Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+36 calc/ 10 s

Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+35 calc/s

In the case of this can be applied to his reactions, Accelerator or at least his field reacts within 1.0726192e-36 seconds, that is even much less of a yoctosecond.

Hypothetically with that it would react to things moving at 3.1 octillion times the speed of light at 1 meter away.

And maybe it contradicts when he hacked Last Order's mind, which would still be FTL but not as high level
https://www.fanverse.org/threads/toaru-feats-calculation.1231745/post-64444901
But on the other hand it is not even 1% of the calculation capacity of the Tree Diagram.

To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

Breakdowns of the Index series.

onelastforum.com

Result
Accelerator calc speed= 9.3229728e+35 calc/s

Would it really contradict what he did with Last Order's mind?
I thought that would require much more precision to deal with, unless that makes it more difficult than the plasma storm feat?

 

[Paxton]

You know now that I think about it, it wouldn't hurt to make a threadmark detailing everything Fiamma can do

 

[Cryso Agori]

Hm, you know we should use the calculation factory. Make an archive their and repost stuff from FN and here.

 

[Top59]

Would it really contradict what he did with Last Order's mind?

There are several points that can be taken out.
-When Accelerator hacked Last Order, it is assumed that he was using all his mental power, so much so that the field was deactivated, which did not happen when he made the plasma storm, and it also took him exactly 1 minute (time that is given in that scene).

-On the other hand, just before hacking Last Order it is made clear that only Accelerator's mind that could calculate the flow of all the air particles in the city would have a chance of doing so.

-It is also clarified that Accelerator had a hard time differentiating between a neuron connection of a virus and there were thousands of viruses.

Perhaps the explanation would be that the calculation to eliminate each virus, not knowing how to differentiate what the viruses were, forced him to check the neuronal synapses many times and not just once or something like that, but the difference is really very big.

There's also the fact that Kamachi like many writers have no idea how massive it is to do something like that, I'm not saying that negates the feats but maybe it's the simplest explanation for that possible contradiction.

By the way, how much calculation capacity counts as reaction speed?

In real life, of course, but in fiction, almost any character capable of hacking (hacking using codes and not using any special powers) in an instant would imply enormous calculation speed, which seems to me to be rarely discussed.

Because even now that I think about it, Digimon (including the weak ones) have pretty insane hacking abilities and a lot of those could be applied in reactions if so.

I mean, I don't have a problem with Accelerator being MFTL in reactions, but I'd rather stay neutral and bring up the pros and cons, rather than come across as some Bleachtard twisting everything to say Yhwach is multiversal and MFTL.

 

[Paxton]

I'm assuming that even if Accelerator (if they fight in the first place) were to react to Alice's tea pot throwing that crossed dozens of light-years in a short timeframe that'd still be inferior to his plasma storm feat?

 

[Top59]

Hm, you know we should use the calculation factory. Make an archive their and repost stuff from FN and here.

https://onelastforum.com/threads/processing-speed-of-some-things-in-toaru.2267/

I'm assuming that even if Accelerator (if they fight in the first place) were to react to Alice's tea pot throwing that crossed dozens of light-years in a short timeframe that'd still be inferior to his plasma storm feat?

Yes, even if it traveled the universe in a straight line in a second it would still be slower, that's why even I have doubts about his speed, because he would have it at "Saint Seiya characters reactions" level to give an example.