To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Astaro]

Real classy Pax, insulting the person who made my Respect thread take off like it did by providing irrefutable proof of Toaru being a Multiverse

Because I guarantee you if I really handed it to you like I almost did, you would have been spouting the same incomprehensible Kabbalah crap no one in the OBD would take seriously

 

[Paxton]

If, as you say, the gap between Alice and Othinus is infinitely large, Alice should have easily negated Othinus' world destruction and come back to life very easily.
Just like how she negated being killed in a surprise attack by the CRC and regenerated completely fine.
But did she do that in NT9 and 10?
No. In NT10, it's clear that everything except for Kamijou, Othinus, and the Hidden Phase disappeared entirely, so she couldn't do that.
This is the most decisive evidence that Phase manipulation can negate even the regeneration of Alice's Wonderland.

Yeah you're being dishonest.

Hiryuu literally just posted a quote that explains this.

"Since you aren't doing that, I can only assume
you're limited to using one miracle at a time. "

She was occupied and couldn't defend herself with her ability.

But yeah let's take one quote from mid NT out of context and ignore everything else that goes against the Magic God agenda.

Stay on that side.

 

[fiamma]

I didn't realize how difficult it would be to have a conversation with someone who doesn't even understand Japanese.
They fail to grasp the meaning of annihilation and death

 

[fiamma]

Even though the CRC killed Alice in a surprise attack, she can activate a spell even while dead and come back to life.
She couldn't do that?
Alice's Wonderland cannot reverse the death overwritten by Phase manipulation.
That's clear evidence.
It's truly regrettable that they can't understand this...

 

[Astaro]

Honestly I'm kinda agreeing with Astaro. Alice's reality warping may be different from a Magic God, but if the end result is basically the same there's really no difference between them.

Like Fiamma's plan to bring heaven is similar to Alice's power too, manipulating the material world to effect the phases above as explained by Mark Space and Levinia Birdway rather than placing new phases like a magic god and he's fodder to MG's.

Unless she shows something on the level of Mo Altair there's really nothing showing she's above them in power.

I actually can reason with Alice being stronger than Othinus off basic scaling.

I just think blatantly ignoring scans and feats to argue Aleister, Coronzon, and any other Fraudscendent not named Alice being able to fodderize Othinus, let alone True Gremlin was total BS

Every feat says otherwise. That Othinus is very much in their weight class if not superior and True Gremlin at full power would be doing the stomping

 

[Paxton]

I actually can reason with Alice being stronger than Othinus off basic scaling.

I just think blatantly ignoring scans and feats to argue Aleister, Coronzon, and any other Fraudscendent not named Alice being able to fodderize Othinus was total BS

Total strawman btw.
That was never my claim.


Risk 4 Transcendents would be able to kill a Magic God the same way a Dainsleif calamity could and/or an average Golden Dawn magician could.
I never once claimed it'd be a stomp for either side, just that it's possible.

“Magic Gods are those who pursued magic to the point of no longer being human.
But these Golden people have remained human while using spells that incorporate even the power of Magic Gods.
But it isn’t a case of one side walking all over the other.
It’s a complex mess of mutual deception and betrayal.
You could say whoever lets their guard down just a little will be consumed.”

 

[fiamma]

Those who underestimate the Magic Gods often bring up the evidence that in NT10, Aleister survived against multiple Magic Gods.
I'm simply using their logic.

Othinus definitively annihilated all of them.

Othinus & Magicgods> All (All those who remained in the real world and phases at that time. Alice & anna & Aleister & Coronzon & Fraudscendent etc)
Perfect~~

 

[Paxton]

Honestly I'm kinda agreeing with Astaro. Alice's reality warping may be different from a Magic God, but if the end result is basically the same there's really no difference between them.

Like Fiamma's plan to bring heaven is similar to Alice's power too, manipulating the material world to effect the phases above as explained by Mark Space and Levinia Birdway rather than placing new phases like a magic god and he's fodder to MG's.

Unless she shows something on the level of Mo Altair there's really nothing showing she's above them in power.

Fiamma never fights a Magic God at his full power, so we have no idea how that'd go.


Besides, being able to grant people the usage of pure elements already shows she can affect the entire cosmology, as pure elements reside in Briah/require crossing the Abyss into Atziluth to use.

That's already a better showing of scale, ignoring that the narration and Othinus herself both already admitted Othnius' inferiority to Alice by proxy.

 

[Astaro]

Yeah yeah, same old Risk 4 or Dainsleif crap. All empty hype

Enjoy the Ningen ratings. I’m not going to bother addressing this. Your scaling is ass period

 

[Paxton]

Those who underestimate the Magic Gods often bring up the evidence that in NT10, Aleister survived against multiple Magic Gods.
I'm simply using their logic.

Othinus definitively annihilated all of them.

Othinus & Magicgods> All (All those who remained in the real world and phases at that time. Alice & anna & Aleister & Coronzon & Fraudscendent etc)
Perfect~~

Yeah if you want to ignore context, scaling, and the fact that the Transcendents in specific literally let Othinus kill them because they're indecisive.

Actually re-read GT before you keep saying this shit.

 

[Paxton]

Yeah yeah, same old Risk 4 or Dainsleif crap. All empty hype

Enjoy the Ningen ratings. I’m not going to bother addressing this. Your scaling is ass period

"It's empty hype"

So you have no argument, great.

Ironic from the one trying to put Magic Gods above the entire cosmology.

 

[fiamma]

I will explain for the last time to you who believe in the incorrect interpretation.

While it's easy for them to destroy, their annoyance is that they can't start over again.
At one point, they were even caught up in Othinus' world destruction and were annihilated/killed, being reluctant to put out their only card. (In that black space, even if the Magic Gods killed Othinus, they wouldn't be able to remake the world.)

Firstly, they were definitely killed. That was explicitly stated.

Secondly, the mention of the Magic Gods killing Othinus in the black labyrinth is not a statement that they can kill her. I don't understand why this part is being misunderstood.

It literally means that "even if they killed" Othinus, they wouldn't be able to recreate the world.

This is still a hypothetical. It's unknown whether they can kill her or not.

The only means mentioned, Aradia, would require infinite amplification and time to be possible, and you know best that it's impossible in a battle against a Magic God.

Moreover, Kamachi used the term "level" for Alice's Wonderland, publicly stating that it's similar to the Magic Gods' phase manipulation.

It's questionable why JS06 ignored the clearly used term "level" and used the metaphor "that extent" instead...

I find it regrettable that you can't distinguish between assumptions and confirmed facts.

 

[Paxton]

"Having destroyed the world herself, Othinus knew that was no exaggeration.
“That truly is an appropriate weapon for opposing a Magic God.”

lol



Othinus' word is only "empty hype" when it goes against the Magic God agenda

 

[Paxton]

I will explain for the last time to you who believe in the incorrect interpretation.

While it's easy for them to destroy, their annoyance is that they can't start over again.
At one point, they were even caught up in Othinus' world destruction and were annihilated/killed, being reluctant to put out their only card. (In that black space, even if the Magic Gods killed Othinus, they wouldn't be able to remake the world.)

Firstly, they were definitely killed. That was explicitly stated.

Secondly, the mention of the Magic Gods killing Othinus in the black labyrinth is not a statement that they can kill her. I don't understand why this part is being misunderstood.

It literally means that "even if they killed" Othinus, they wouldn't be able to recreate the world.

This is still a hypothetical. It's unknown whether they can kill her or not.

The only means mentioned, Aradia, would require infinite amplification and time to be possible, and you know best that it's impossible in a battle against a Magic God.

Moreover, Kamachi used the term "level" for Alice's Wonderland, publicly stating that it's similar to the Magic Gods' phase manipulation.

It's questionable why JS06 ignored the clearly used term "level" and used the metaphor "that extent" instead...

I find it regrettable that you can't distinguish between assumptions and confirmed facts.

And their one and only card is Risk 4, as Risk 4's chant states they leave human territory.

The hypothetical implies they're in the black world to begin with, which they can't be if they would die to her throwing Gungnir.

Most likely, no one could have escaped that lance when attacked head on.
No matter what form of defense or evasion they attempted, they would have had no hope of surviving.
That attack had been given the parameter of “no human can oppose it”.
Unless one left the territory of man, one would be smashed to pieces.

“No more holding back. Risk 4: Releasing the numberless seal – leaving human territory.
Rapidly renewing myself using a trio of great beings.”

It's as blatant as you can get.


And you're once again misinterpreting what Aradia's magic enables her to do if she amplifies herself enough.
She would be able to ONE-SHOT a Magic God, not just fight them.

Again, taking things out of context.

 

[fiamma]

lol



Othinus' word is only "empty hype" when it goes against the Magic God agenda

Oh, my unfortunate bro...

It seems you have forgotten the part immediately after that, which states that with the full power of a Magic God, it could be dealt with without even being worth fighting.

 

[Paxton]

Oh, my unfortunate bro...

It seems you have forgotten the part immediately after that, which states that with the full power of a Magic God, it could be dealt with without even being worth fighting.

Yeah, I read the volume. I know exactly what's stated right after.

If Othinus had been at full strength, she could have crushed Marian in a single blow.
There would not even be a need to kill her. She could simply throw her into a world of happiness.

She doesn't need to fight the beings Marian would summon because she'd kill Marian before she did so.

Again, stop leaving things out of context.

 

[fiamma]

And their one and only card is Risk 4, as Risk 4's chant states they leave human territory.

The hypothetical implies they're in the black world to begin with, which they can't be if they would die to her throwing Gungnir.





It's as blatant as you can get.

The fact that they deviate from the human realm is not important.
At the point when the Pure World and the phases of numerous religions and mythologies were destroyed, non-human beings like Coronzon, Aiwass, and Kazakiri also all died.

Did they die because they were human?

Gungnir doesn't simply kill because one is human.
And there's no mention anywhere that deviating from the human realm allows one to survive Gungnir.
Your ability to distort context is quite remarkable.

 

[fiamma]

Yeah, I read the volume. I know exactly what's stated right after.




She doesn't need to fight the beings Marian would summon because she'd kill Marian before she did so.

Again, stop leaving things out of context.

There is no mention anywhere that Marian is killed before she can bring out Dáinsleif.
There is even less mention of launching a surprise attack before summoning it.
You are unaware that you are currently distorting the text itself to fit your own claims.

 

[Paxton]

The fact that they deviate from the human realm is not important.
At the point when the Pure World and the phases of numerous religions and mythologies were destroyed, non-human beings like Coronzon, Aiwass, and Kazakiri also all died.

Did they die because they were human?

Gungnir doesn't simply kill because one is human.
And there's no mention anywhere that deviating from the human realm allows one to survive Gungnir.
Your ability to distort context is quite remarkable.

There's your answer: Othinus didn't destroy the religious phases full of beings who left human territory because the narration explicitly says that's what enables you to survive Gungnir destroying the "world".

Glad we agree.


Also, nice lie.

New Testament Volume 9, page 152.

It's right there, and I just posted the quote.

 

[Paxton]

There is no mention anywhere that Marian is killed before she can bring out Dáinsleif.
There is even less mention of launching a surprise attack before summoning it.
You are unaware that you are currently distorting the text itself to fit your own claims.

Can you read?

"If Othinus had been at full strength, she could have crushed Marian in a single blow.
There would not even be a need to kill her. She could simply throw her into a world of happiness."

It's specifically stated that she'd crush MARIAN in a single blow.
You know, the person using the weapon that can summon beings on Othinus' level?
Because she's ultimately a human magician?



I shouldn't have to explain how this shit works.