To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

Top59

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Hmm.
Was the similar feat performed by the Aztec Magic God in the WR timeline ever calc'd or was it too vague? :hm
That I also thought of calculating it, although very similar and it may be the same technique but the quote does not explicitly indicate if that were stars or not.

Although there are several interesting things with him.

He is a God of the Sun, he defeated all the Aztec gods, many of the Aztec magician's spells are based on light, on the light of other celestial bodies, a spell that is based on throwing rabbit bones capable of reaching other celestial bodies as well as being It supposes that the Aztec gods used that attack to reduce the size of the moon because it was equal to that of the sun, besides that it is said that they could destroy celestial bodies (you know hōshi) and a spell that allows react to those attacks.

In theory he would scale from that and his attacks were also light.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Actually wanna know something, when Touma was fighting the magician who uses the dagger to reflect light that destroys things, Etzali iirc, was there a line about him dodging or blocking light after it was fired or was it all aimdodge?
 

Top59

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Actually wanna know something, when Touma was fighting the magician who uses the dagger to reflect light that destroys things, Etzali iirc, was there a line about him dodging or blocking light after it was fired or was it all aimdodge?
Etzali missed the attacks because Touma was at a distance and kept moving, when Touma got closer he threw dust to impede his attack.

In the end Touma was not sure if he could block the attack because it is invisible (but it is not clear if it was because of speed) then Etzali attacks Touma, Touma raises the IB trying to block the attack but in the end the attack didn't come out because the dagger it had gotten dirty if I remember correctly.

It was left ambiguous as to whether Touma would be able to react to the attack if it wasn't invisible.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
A6gWQfw.gif
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass.

Great Demon Coronzon.

Both those transcendent beings were closely related to Aleister Crowley and had greatly altered the history of the entire world from the magic side. As seen in how that human was known as both a genius and an eccentric, they could not be judged in simple terms of good and evil.

Aiwass started the conversation with some self-deprecation.

“My mind is not structured simply enough to recklessly oversimplify things to a duality, but it can be fun to occasionally play the hero as a way to enjoy this silliness. Now, shall we dance as angel and demon, you garbage?”

“Don’t make me laugh. You are no more than exposed energy without an avatar. That much is clear from the fact that you borrowed his wife’s body when giving him the Book of the Law. Just like me, you should only be able to wield your full power when you possess an avatar.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Coronzon being at her full power just fundamentally doesn't make sense though, she had to descend down the Sephiroth and nerf herself arguably even more than the MGs did. :hm

Qualitative superiority and all that.

And aren't Coronzon/Aiwass treated as relative to each other? Seems kind of weird that one at full power would be able to trump the Magic Gods but the other can't even beat a single Magic God nerfed twice (albeit she wasn't trying to kill Niang-Niang iirc).
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Coronzon being at her full power just fundamentally doesn't make sense though, she had to descend down the Sephiroth and nerf herself arguably even more than the MGs did. :hm

Qualitative superiority and all that.

And aren't Coronzon/Aiwass treated as relative to each other? Seems kind of weird that one at full power would be able to trump the Magic Gods but the other can't even beat a single Magic God nerfed twice (albeit she wasn't trying to kill Niang-Niang iirc).
Aiwass seems to be a work in progress. Also, Crowely’s plan to defeat the Magic Gods involved nerfing them, presumably which is when Aiwass would step in.

Makes sense since the Magic Gods at their best knew Aiwass and considered it not a threat to them
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Got to find the quote but I think Coronzon even explains appearing with a human avatar allows it to bypass the normal weakening that comes with it descending down the Sephiroth into the material universe too
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Coronzon being at her full power just fundamentally doesn't make sense though, she had to descend down the Sephiroth and nerf herself arguably even more than the MGs did. :hm

Qualitative superiority and all that.

And aren't Coronzon/Aiwass treated as relative to each other? Seems kind of weird that one at full power would be able to trump the Magic Gods but the other can't even beat a single Magic God nerfed twice (albeit she wasn't trying to kill Niang-Niang iirc).
I think that's just Coronzon hyping herself up after all, Niang-Niang literally says "Don't underestimate a Magic God, you freak" paraphrasing.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
No, it is not. The human body serves as an anchor for Coronzon's soul. What makes Coronzon special is that as one of the Lords of the Tree of Sephiroth, as well as the Gatekeeper of the Abyss, she is free to control her soul rank, making it higher or lower. The moment she entered the human world, Coronzon lowered her soul rank to the human level by becoming MUCH weaker, making herself someone who exists in a box. The soul cannot exist on the surface of the four worlds without a physical anchor in the form of a cell (yes, I'm using extreme Gnosticism theory) of flesh and blood. The body stabilizes the human soul and prevents it from dissolving into the human world. For the same Lilith, she had to create a flesh and blood cell, otherwise her soul would dissipate, unable to maintain its existence through miracles. Aiwass didn't have a very good avatar because he used an AIM field, which makes him unable to defeat Coronzon who has a perfect anchor (although she still said that using a human body is a pain) (Coronzon is basically stronger than Aiwass). Coronzon is currently the strongest creature in ToAru (not counting Ain). To use the analogy that Kamachi himself provided, the human world is like a box, and the transcendent beings (angels, gods, and Coronzon) are outside the box (the sephiroth of the human world). As Index said, what is inside the box cannot oppose the Coronzon in any way, including the IB and the magical gods.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
No, it is not. The human body serves as an anchor for Coronzon's soul. What makes Coronzon special is that as one of the Lords of the Tree of Sephiroth, as well as the Gatekeeper of the Abyss, she is free to control her soul rank, making it higher or lower. The moment she entered the human world, Coronzon lowered her soul rank to the human level by becoming MUCH weaker, making herself someone who exists in a box. The soul cannot exist on the surface of the four worlds without a physical anchor in the form of a cell (yes, I'm using extreme Gnosticism theory) of flesh and blood. The body stabilizes the human soul and prevents it from dissolving into the human world. For the same Lilith, she had to create a flesh and blood cell, otherwise her soul would dissipate, unable to maintain its existence through miracles. Aiwass didn't have a very good avatar because he used an AIM field, which makes him unable to defeat Coronzon who has a perfect anchor (although she still said that using a human body is a pain) (Coronzon is basically stronger than Aiwass). Coronzon is currently the strongest creature in ToAru (not counting Ain). To use the analogy that Kamachi himself provided, the human world is like a box, and the transcendent beings (angels, gods, and Coronzon) are outside the box (the sephiroth of the human world). As Index said, what is inside the box cannot oppose the Coronzon in any way, including the IB and the magical gods.
You can keep saying that but... there's no evidence in the story? The story tells us she's at full power with Lola Stuart's body. Mashing together other religious things to try and explain the discrepancy just makes more bullshit.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
To use the analogy that Kamachi himself provided, the human world is like a box, and the transcendent beings (angels, gods, and Coronzon) are outside the box (the sephiroth of the human world). As Index said, what is inside the box cannot oppose the Coronzon in any way, including the IB and the magical gods.
Need a cite for Index saying this, especially including Magic Gods
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
You can keep saying that but... there's no evidence in the story? The story tells us she's at full power with Lola Stuart's body. Mashing together other religious things to try and explain the discrepancy just makes more bullshit.
Where the fuck did you get that? How did you come to the conclusion that Coronzon is at the peak of her powers when she uses her avatar? Do you think I invented the concept that the human body stabilizes the soul?

A twisted woman's smile appeared on the surface of the hair that twisted into the shape of a spear or spike.

"If I was just any old demon, that weakening tactic probably would have worked. Much like it did for Magic God Othinus when she was critically damaged by human hands."

There was a voice.

A wicked voice came from the base of the golden hair beyond the veil of light.

She reminded them of her position and what the title of Great Demon meant.

She seemed to be forcibly distancing herself from something that could never be broken down once it was accepted into the heart.

"But I am Great Demon Coronzon, the only demon to have gained my own body of flesh and blood. Not even Satan and Beelzebub could manage that. The tree is not just to ascend. Descending it every once in a while can be fun. For better or for worse, this cage of flesh stabilizes my soul and makes me sturdy enough to remain unshaken when I command an energy very similar to Telesma."

Telesma could be used to perform a safe summoning by cutting away a small amount within a temple. It could also be removed and imbued into a sword or even directly sent into the human body. It would have been difficult for a human to do the same thing. They would only be confused if they were told to collapse their physical form and enter a sword.

That was what this was.

One could cast off their cage of flesh and ascend the Sephiroth to reach the knowledge there, but that made them more susceptible to external forces. On the other hand, descending the tree placed many different physical restrictions on them, but it gave them a sturdier self. Normal magicians would hate an "unchanging self" as much as a stubborn mind or stiff joints, but it was all in how it was used.

Coronzon had endured.
Need a cite for Index saying this, especially including Magic Gods
> Even ift hey overturned the toy box, could they really find something with equal power to her thatw ould form a pair with her?
[...]
“No.” Index shook her head.
“That isn’t what I mean, Touma. Even if you still had yourr ight hand’s power, that is still something inside the toy box of the world. That does not match Coronzon who is viewing it all from a step removed.”


And a few more quotes about the magical gods being bound to the Surface of the Four Worlds.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Where the fuck did you get that? How did you come to the conclusion that Coronzon is at the peak of her powers when she uses her avatar?
The fact that the story says it?

“Don’t make me laugh. You are no more than exposed energy without an avatar. That much is clear from the fact that you borrowed his wife’s body when giving him the Book of the Law. Just like me, you should only be able to wield your full power when you possess an avatar.

Seems like to me there's some contradictions going around here. :ItadoriHmm: wtf Kamachi?
 
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