To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
"the black labyrinth that used up all of it's possibilities"

aka the phases Othinus created?

no shit she destroyed those, that's irrelevant to what you're claiming
And your now ignoring what’s clearly written.

Another Paxton L. Concession accepted
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Again, if you can post a quote that says Magic Gods affect the entire Sephiroth, which isn't contradicted by numerous other quotes and the very plot point that is them being unable to create a new "canvas", I will gladly concede on this point.

Until then, my point still stands.
 

fiamma

Notorious
All powerscaling aside, I find it ridiculous that Othinus and Alice can manipulate the Pure World/reference point. Kinda invalidates Aleister's goal somewhat, but it is what it is I guess.
If the narration says it, I can't really argue

Surprisingly, the mention that phase manipulation changes the very reference point of the world was also present in NT9.
I was also surprised when I reconfirmed it.

"As long as his right hand has the power to eliminate irregularities in the world, if the world itself is changed, that right hand will also have difficulty functioning."

When explained in detail, this aligns with GT10.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Changing how the world appears is not the same as altering the core rules of what the Pure World (and Imagine Breaker by proxy) considers "unnatural".

They're two different things.

Again, Othinus can't make her crossbow shots or Gungnir un-negatable to Imagine Breaker.

Unlike Alice, who can outright ignore Imagine Breaker and impose a fated death on Touma, something he's explicitly exempt from in regards to Magic Gods (sparks and sprays).
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Changing how the world appears is not the same as altering the core rules of what the Pure World (and Imagine Breaker by proxy) considers "unnatural".

They're two different things.

Again, Othinus can't make her crossbow shots or Gungnir un-negatable to Imagine Breaker.

Unlike Alice, who can outright ignore Imagine Breaker and impose a fated death on Touma, something he's explicitly exempt from in regards to Magic Gods (sparks and sprays).
Wait how is he exempt from dying by a magic god's hands?

Othinus literally kills him billions of times lol, only reason he comes back is because Othinus kept resurrecting him cause she didn't want to be the new host for IB.
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
Aradia kills him multiple times and only reason he's alive is cause Mary resurrected him.

Are you arguing that Touma can resurrect himself on his own somehow?
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
I said Touma is immune to sparks and sprays because of Imagine Breaker.
I never said Touma can't die period.

What are you confused about?
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
You said Alice killed him and that MG's can't. Even though they can and have?
Imposing a fated death upon Touma would directly conflict with Imagine Breaker if they did that.


Othinus kills him through indirect means that don't interact with Imagine Breaker.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member
Actually fuck it I'll come back to this at a later date because I can't properly explain this

I'll concede on this for now (you don't need to reply to this message)
 
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Churronzon

Active member
Othinus literally kills him billions of times lol, only reason he comes back is because Othinus kept resurrecting him cause she didn't want to be the new host for IB.
She never does it via direct reality warping. Not saying she can't, just that she didn't.
It was always some kind of molecular destruction or throwing a moon at him and stuff
 

Hiryuu

Active member
Same here whatever you got saved
Transcendents:

1. Blodeuwedd's ability to control every living being on the planet:
“Ah ha ha☆ Alice isn’t the only one. The rest of us regular Transcendents also have enough charisma for our very presence to distort human society and create new trends. Maybe you could call it a flaw of dressing up as a god. However, I am exceptional in that regard. In this one field, my ability is even more obvious than Alice’s.”

That they were on a bridge over a large river wasn’t enough to explain it.

This noise was unusual.

The dark water of the January night was stirring with no connection to the water or wind current.

Stirring violently.

“I am loved by all living things. And not just people – birds, land animals, bugs, and fish too.”

Something crashed into the large bridge. They were the black bass, bluegills, and other troublemakers of the river environment. They were small and common creatures with nothing divine about them, but tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands had gathered to form a giant wave.

These lives were so easily manipulated.

Red and silver.

They had enough force and mass to possibly break a bridge weighing more than ten thousand tons.

“What do you think of my Total Courtship?☆”

Using cries, pheromones, dances, and colors, she could seduce any living creature, including humans. Simply put, she was a courtship expert.

Was she already drunk on victory?

Euphoric, Blodeuwedd the Bouquet raised her voice.

“Ha ha☆ Love them, demon of the night. Love every last one of them. But there are plenty of environmentally destructive species that are hated just because there are too many of them!!!”

2. Good Old Mary creating a pocket of isolated time and space:
A quake-like vibration disturbed the dark river.

Blodeuwedd the Bouquet could make a weapon out of the vast city full of pests and vermin, but she wasn’t the only one responsible.

As the fish rushed in as a great wave threatening to swallow up the bridge from the side, they were stopped by a three-legged object the size of a stadium.

“Tribikos,” whispered Good, Old Mary, manager of experimental tools.

She was facing Vidhatri, Indian goddess of fate. Their eyes happened to meet and she took a breath as their piece of time and space was cut away from the confused battlefield. At times, rhythm and timing meant everything in a chaotic battle. Good, Old Mary was bound by Vidhatri in the same way.

Their clash was inevitable now.

Good, Old Mary addressed the perfectly-proportioned model wearing a red sari.

“Vidhatri, mama is serious. Mama will crush you. So what will you do?”

“Are you sure you want me to take this seriously?”

3. Vidhatri has the ability to control fate and creation, and can easily use it to erase people's very existence:
The brown beauty suddenly grew more arms.

No, it was more accurate to say she was standing back to back with had a doll of nearly 2m. It was even larger than Vidhatri’s model-like figure. While she was stiflingly captivating and sensual, this was a life-size ball-jointed doll made of a hard, smooth material.

Was she actually wearing it on her back with thick shoulder straps?

It had apparently been contained inside a rectangular bag.

White thread and black hair was tangled around its artificial fingers.

The Indian fate goddess Vidhatri did not exist on her own. She and the creation goddess Dhatri were always depicted as a pair.

By weaving white and black threads, those gods determined the fate of the entire world, making them extremely powerful.

Threads.

Weaving.

And a doll.

Good, Old Mary sighed as she rapidly analyzed these things to predict what her opponent could do.

She can even undo Good Old Mary's space-time isolation using her ability:
But something else bothered her more.

How had the fish even made it this far?

She looked up to see the great wall was missing.

The Tribikos.

In the brief time she had looked away, her stadium-sized trump card had completely vanished.

Like it had been nightmarishly spirited away.

“You must understand.”

With the sounds of springs operating, the ball-joint doll Dhatri’s arms split and lots of pulleys and latches emerged. It formed a loom.

Extremely thin pieces of white and black danced about.

They were threads.

No, was some of that her own black hair?

“Vidhatri controls fate and Dhatri creates all things. Those two goddesses determine all that happens through the weaving of the white and black. Good, Old Mary, you may be able to create anything with your alchemy, but I decide how many different options are included in that ‘anything’.”

“I see.”

“I am Vidhatri. When paired with my partner goddess, I control fate and creation. I am the Transcendent who classifies the world based on my preferences and saves all of those that meet my preferences.”

The threads of fate were woven together to create the warp and the weft of the world.

Was this what it meant to confront someone who had control over all things?

“You are the same as mama. You contain a portion of the mystical power you borrowed from Alice, but you have failed to make full use of it. You are no more than an imperfect performer.”

“Say what you like. In this field, Good, Old Mary, I can easily erase your very existence. I must only intentionally omit all mention of you.”

Good, Old Mary didn’t even have time to hear her out.

With the breakwater gone, the fish crashed into the bridge like a silver wave.

4. Trismegistus' sword slashes are as fast as light:
The young butler did not hesitate to move.

Light flashed from his right hand as the blade
hidden in his cane turned to light and sliced
through the floor. The strange slash had an effect
well beyond the length of the sword. And it struck
right were crawling Alice's lowered head was. It
definitely hit. Except the metal blade passed right
through her. Like she was intangible.

5. Anna Sprengel has a staff that produces flames that burn away space itself regardless of whatever physical matter was in front of them:
Miss Sprengel raised the staff in her little hands.

That was all.

There was no fancy incantation or complex
magic circle. Flames simply appeared in the
empty air and were released from the staff. They
shot toward Alice with a liquid motion. These
were not ordinary flames. They were magic
lames that scorched and burned away space
itself regardless of the physical material, like an
old photograph being burned from behind
.

There's some other stuff regarding 2nd Saga's ability, but I don't have it save (because she's trash lol jk). Maybe I'll find it and post it some other time.

Kingsford:
1. This quote implies that she can somehow manipulate that place described as having no concept of a horizon and being "outside of it all":
“What are you talking about?”

“How long are you going to hold it all inside? As you can see, this place is ‘outside it all’. After everything you have been through, I would expect you to be searching out god to give him a 🧩 of your mind. Are you just going to accept that you ☠️ed? Seeing you be this obedient is honestly pissing me off. 😠.”

“Hold on. Don’t just make decisions for me! I sense some kind of great power in you. Which is giving me a really bad feeling about this!!”

“Besides, first years in high 🏫 are only 16 in your country, aren’t they? You seem awfully accepting for someone right smack in the middle of their rebellious phase. Isn’t there anything you still want to do?”

“Oh, come to think of it, it is almost my birthday.”

“Which would mean you’re still only 15! Then you definitely should ❌ be giving up so soon!! How sad. This isn’t just an outdated 19th century way of thinking, is it!?”

“I said wait! Nothing you say can change the fact that I’m dead, can it!? What are you even trying to do in this literal dead end!?”

“I am trying to serve those around me.”

She brought her hands in front of her large chest and pushed just the tips of the fingers together.

The expert smiled as she spoke.

“As an expert, I have a secret technique you could call a Hell Tour.”

“…”

“My, my. If that does ❌ mean much to you, what if I called it a Jailbreak?”

“……………………………………………………………………………………………………Wait, really?”

“Yes, really. If the 🌍 cheats you, you cheat it right back. That is how magicians did things in the 19th century. Have things really changed that much?”

He was speechless.

It couldn’t be.

Was this woman really saying she could manipulate this place as she pleased?

Could magic really do that?


In that empty world of white, Anna Kingsford reached a slender hand out toward Kamijou who was still seated.

Her right hand.
 

Hiryuu

Active member
Further additions for Alice:

1. She can seemingly protect those "on her side" by passively protecting them from taking any damage:
“You didn’t find it remotely odd? We’re all regular Transcendents here. A clash between our two groups shouldn’t end so easily. Yet you’re being easily defeated in a one-sided game. Is it a bad matchup between the individual Transcendents? Do our spells combine so well it’s like we were dealt a royal flush? No, that could never happen.”

“…”

“No one can defeat Alice Anotherbible.”

For this alone, she took on a respectful tone.

Almost like she was reading off the handwritten creed only she believed in.

Blodeuwedd the Bouquet thought only of her own blessings as she spoke euphorically.

“You underestimated the meaning of that statement. And that optimism has brought you certain death. It doesn’t just mean you won’t survive a direct physical fight against Alice. There’s no getting around it. We control all of the coincidences and all of our baseless hunches and inspirations will work out in our favor. We have the trends of the world on our side. That is what it means to ‘resonate’ with Alice and take the winning side. To be clear, we are only firing blindly from the hip. You’re the ones ensuring we hit you.”

Vidhatri.

2nd Saga.

And Blodeuwedd the Bouquet.

The Bologna Succubus’s side was being worn down, but all three of them were unharmed. She had gotten a few clean hits in on them, so had they managed to shrug off the damage?

And she was slipping past their expectations and landing an attack they failed to dodge or defend against, so it made no sense for them to be changing their stance to reduce the damage with 100% accuracy.

That wasn’t their individual abilities.

It was their “resonance” with Alice Anotherbible.

“Defying her means death. You had lost from the moment you bet on there being an exception to that, like that you could move beyond her reach, hide where she couldn’t find you, or escape punishment if your defiance was indirect. Not that she would let you get away with this even if you had been correct.”

“How are you on Alice’s side when you only love yourself?”

2. Alice has all the abilities of the Transcendents, but significantly stronger:
“If Alice wanted, she could have changed the world you see before you in any way she liked,” said War God Othinus from his shoulder. “The consulate in District 12 is a good example of that.”

“I thought the other Transcendents made that.”

“You need to assume Alice can do anything the regular Transcendents can. In fact, her version is probably the original.”

“What do you mean by that?”

“Did you really think the Bridge Builders Cabal members created that divine cosplay spell all on their own without any hints to work off of? Remember, these are the people who abandoned their magic names and relied on someone else because they knew they could never achieve their goals themselves. …You can think of the regular Transcendents as custom products created by taking the open-source Alice Anotherbible and tweaking the details to fit their preferences. Where Alice came from, I couldn’t tell you.”

Othinus spoke harshly, but she was that way about everyone on Earth.

In fact…

“Hm? I don’t sense much scorn in your voice there, god.”

“Because I have no real reason to feel scornful,” readily replied the real god.

This wasn’t about what was correct. They simply used different methods. She spoke like a living national treasure of a dancer appreciating the younger people in a phone video who were simply enjoying moving their bodies.

Apparently that was analogous to the one-eyed girl who had gathered faith and polished her skills until she became known as a god and the Transcendents who had chosen various gods and dressed up as them.
 

Top59

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
GL-ImaHWAAAFct8.png


:skully :skully :skully
 

Hiryuu

Active member
Btw @Hiryuu any info on how the fight between Accel and Tris went?
No further mention of him since he got off-screened IIRC. At least not in any significant way.

As for the "fight" itself, it wasn't really much of a fight, so much as it was Trismegistus using a clever method to incapacitate him and avoid directly fighting him.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Went and spoiled myself since I’m still on GT9 but damn, this hits hard.

Even with all that advanced technology, not a single noise came from that boy’s body.

His condition was on a level beyond all of that.

His bangs blew in the chilly night wind.

But even that looked like weeds on the roadside. There was no will there.

It was even crueler than a complete absence of motion.

The special monitor thinner than a piece of copy paper displayed only a flat horizontal line. Indicating the number zero. And an equally flat tone played on and on forever.

That was all.

Everyone listened to that merciless tone.

An emergency transport team, some doctors, and – for some reason – a couple of non-medical people were out on the dangerous roof.

“Eek!?”

That quiet shriek came from Misaka Mikoto.

The girl who had been left behind.

The fighter held in reserve.

She felt like this was her karmic retribution for always being so close to that boy but never managing to see any of it through to the definitive end.

Another girl was also out on the heliport.

She spoke with her long honey-blonde hair buffeted by the helicopter wind.

The girl bore a different kind of karma from Mikoto.

“I told you this would eventually happen if you kept on like that.”



The tone grew more distant.

The people surrounding the stretcher were yelling at each other as they quickly withdrew into the hospital. Were they headed to the operating room, or the intensive care unit?

Had they given up yet?

Had they still not accepted the truth?

Were they afraid they would realize the truth if they let themselves come to a stop?

Everything became silent.

Finally.

But…

Index had been on the helicopter ambulance, but she hadn’t been able to disembark.

She couldn’t move at all.

She simply held her hands over her mouth.

The pure girl had crystal tears in the corners of her eyes. She covered her entire face with her hands.

Darkness had been thrust before her.

A sign of parting.

Of death.

“…”

She couldn’t speak a single word.

Was her perfect memory a curse at times like this? Or was it a blessing because it allowed the boy to remain forever with her, even if only in her head?



Eventually, the frog-faced doctor slowly shook his head.

“January 6, 11:58 PM.”

That side-to-side motion said it all.

The doctor who never gave up still said the words here.

“The transported patient has been confirmed deceased. There is nothing I can do when he’s already dead.”

Kamijou Touma never made it to January 7, the final day of winter break.

His death had already been confirmed.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Also worth noting, we got to see Index, Misaka, and Shokuhou’s reaction to the news. Yet oddly, Othinus was left out.

And then you think back on Ollerus’ words the last time he and Othinus spoke about what would happen to her should she lose Touma.

“You have reason to kill me, don’t you?”

“Undoubtedly.” His tone was calm. “But if Kamijou Touma dies here, you will develop into a more frightening monster than anything you have shown so far. Similarly, if you die here, a great change might come over Kamijou Touma’s nature. I do not like the sound of either one. As I said, I have no more attachment. If you hold a relationship that will weaken you more than anything else, acting to preserve it is not a bad option.”
 
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