To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Irradiance]

Accelerator still redirects because vectors gg

Knowing the WQ she would reveal that she can erase personal realities, too lol

 

[Astaro]

Also, just like with Waltraute, Ragnarok is also acknowledged as part of Norse Mythology in Blood Sign

<The Regulation-class was created by you humans as a starting point to reach the gods. The Divine-class are individual beings that appeared on their own. Then what about us? The Unexplored-class is the laws of the other world. We’re based on colors which represent fire, water, wind, earth, time, life and death, good and bad deeds, and plenty of other things. Simply put, it’s what you call ‘elements’ and the world takes shape because we each support one of them.>

“That’s getting pretty abstract. The Unexplored-classes aren’t humanoid gods?”

<Humans worship the gods because they want the gods to save their world. But the gods can’t overcome the laws of their world. Just like Cronus couldn’t escape Zeus in the beginning and just like Odin must tremble in fear of Fenrir in the end.>

She seemed to be reciting something.

<You could say the Unexplored-class is an anthropomorphized version of the rules that govern the category of the Divine-class. Our role is to manage heaven and we keep the gears of the other world running…or we were supposed to.>

 

[Irradiance]

It was mentioned she was destroying both worlds with the attack.

She clearly wasn't destroying both universes.
Read your quote again, the WQ clearly specifies that she crushes only that coordinate of that particular world in that attack.

Could be explained that the materials summoned are having their bodies used while the Vessels control them which is why their mostly unaware of the worlds beyond their own.

The materials use avatars, yes, but they still know what happened while they were summoned. The White Queen is the best example of that. (I think it might have also been stated? Would have to look for it.)

Humans are part of every major mythology. Can just chalk up the “humans” in those worlds as being part of them just as much as the gods and thus separate from the humans in the real world.

That's a lot of headcanon to explain how a cameo might mean two worlds are fused together. Doesn't really work either, because Regulation-Class materials were supposed to be something humans had to create because there was nothing summonable before the Divine-Class. If there were human summons those would be Regulation-class.

Thing is Kamachi uses Othinus version of Odin’s name to differentiate the two in the crossover, Othinus being Toaru’s version of the Norse God while Odin refers to Waltraute’s.

You can't make the evidence any more vague. Your evidence for them being the same verse is literally just that two characters have the same name. Not to mention that, again, from ToArus cosmology perspective there is absolutely no way they share a cosmology.

 

[Mr.OMG]

By the way, it looks like Othinus is really going to become megaverse+, then what about the other characters?

 

[Paxton]

She clearly wasn't destroying both universes.
Read your quote again, the WQ clearly specifies that she crushes only that coordinate of that particular world in that attack.


The materials use avatars, yes, but they still know what happened while they were summoned. The White Queen is the best example of that. (I think it might have also been stated? Would have to look for it.)


That's a lot of headcanon to explain how a cameo might mean two worlds are fused together. Doesn't really work either, because Regulation-Class materials were supposed to be something humans had to create because there was nothing summonable before the Divine-Class. If there were human summons those would be Regulation-class.


You can't make the evidence any more vague. Your evidence for them being the same verse is literally just that two characters have the same name. Not to mention that, again, from ToArus cosmology perspective there is absolutely no way they share a cosmology.

I thought To Aru not having parallel worlds was bs though?

 

[Irradiance]

Also, just like with Waltraute, Ragnarok is also acknowledged as part of Norse Mythology in Blood Sign

You mean a feature of real-life norse mythology was mentioned in a verse where gods based on all legends of humanity exist?

 

[Irradiance]

I thought To Aru not having parallel worlds was bs though?

It has Phases with copies of the universe and stuff. Phases and other worlds have to be distinguished in this context. What Bloodsign has is definitely no Phase of ToAru. (Otherwise lots of magicians would be crying about the White Queen by now...)

 

[Paxton]

It has Phases with copies of the universe and stuff. Phases and other worlds have to be distinguished in this context. What Bloodsign has is definitely no Phase of ToAru. (Otherwise lots of magicians would be crying about the White Queen by now...)

Why would that be? I'm not that familiar with her.

 

[Mr.OMG]

It has Phases with copies of the universe and stuff. Phases and other worlds have to be distinguished in this context. What Bloodsign has is definitely no Phase of ToAru. (Otherwise lots of magicians would be crying about the White Queen by now...)

Well actually if you take all the new data from the interview, there is a multiverse, and Phases>multiverse, thereby creating a huge structure called World, it seems that due to this qualitatively World ToAru is equal to "worlds" Tangram.

 

[Astaro]

She clearly wasn't destroying both universes.
Read your quote again, the WQ clearly specifies that she crushes only that coordinate of that particular world in that attack.


The materials use avatars, yes, but they still know what happened while they were summoned. The White Queen is the best example of that. (I think it might have also been stated? Would have to look for it.)


That's a lot of headcanon to explain how a cameo might mean two worlds are fused together. Doesn't really work either, because Regulation-Class materials were supposed to be something humans had to create because there was nothing summonable before the Divine-Class. If there were human summons those would be Regulation-class.


You can't make the evidence any more vague. Your evidence for them being the same verse is literally just that two characters have the same name. Not to mention that, again, from ToArus cosmology perspective there is absolutely no way they share a cosmology.

I did. It was mentioned she could do the same to both worlds though.

White Queen is the one exception. For those foolish enough to summon her, she’s the only Material who takes over the Vessel used to summon her (and she even took this a step further in one volume where she made every person that was a Vessel into a copy of herself) not to mention breaking other rules with her power.

Or that the random humans beings named in many mythologies weren’t of interest. The whole reason for summoning in this series is specifically for reaching the gods

Don’t see the issue with cosmology being shared. Doesnt go anywhere beyond gods in Toaru being summoned in Blood Sign as demonstrated with Othinus. And it’s hardly vague since besides Othinus-Odin being used to differentiate the two interpretations of the Norse God between works, when Waltraute was summoned we get the actual Waltraute from Waltraute’s marriage illustrated showing it’s that being.

Blood Sign just seems to be the only verse by Kamachi that’s possible to interact with those beyond mythological gods (Unexplored Class)

 

[Paxton]

By the way, it looks like Othinus is really going to become megaverse+, then what about the other characters?

I mean, through scaling that'd make everyone at or above her level also megaversal+, that's kind of how that works.

 

[Irradiance]

Why would that be? I'm not that familiar with her.

Well, as Astaro already said, each and every one of the WQs attacks is like Curtana. So they would cut through Phases. And she fires trillions of those at once each and every one of them at least powerful enough to dust a planet. You would bet people would notice trillions of attacks from another phase erase crap on Earth.

To that comes that the WQ rewrote the laws of reality after the secret war. If Bloodsign were part of ToAru that would mean as much as that she changed the fundamental rules behind all phases and the pure world at once. Remember the uproar when the elements were unbalanced with Fiamma fixing them at stuff? You would imagine something like that but on the scale of all mythologies would raise an eyebrow.

Additionally, the real ruling class of all supernatural powers in ToAru would be the Unexplored-Class then. So in order for Aleister to destroy magic he would for example not just have to erase all Phases, but also win a war against the Unexplored Class. They would be more powerful than the MGs as well. And no user of supernatural powers even considered them, despite magic in ToAru being much more advanced than in Bloodsign. (Bloodsign magicians can rarely do more than magically create a stick... well, and summon stuff)

 

[Paxton]

Well, as Astaro already said, each and every one of the WQs attacks is like Curtana. So they would cut through Phases. And she fires trillions of those at once each and every one of them at least powerful enough to dust a planet. You would bet people would notice trillions of attacks from another phase erase crap on Earth.

To that comes that the WQ rewrote the laws of reality after the secret war. If Bloodsign were part of ToAru that would mean as much as that she changed the fundamental rules behind all phases and the pure world at once. Remember the uproar when the elements were unbalanced with Fiamma fixing them at stuff? You would imagine something like that but on the scale of all mythologies would raise an eyebrow.

Additionally, the real ruling class of all supernatural powers in ToAru would be the Unexplored-Class then. So in order for Aleister to destroy magic he would for example not just have to erase all Phases, but also win a war against the Unexplored Class. They would be more powerful than the MGs as well. And no user of supernatural powers even considered them, despite magic in ToAru being much more advanced than in Bloodsign. (Bloodsign magicians can rarely do more than magically create a stick... well, and summon stuff)

So Curtana cuts through space-time and not just space? Though I guess they're kind of interlinked

 

[Astaro]

Well, as Astaro already said, each and every one of the WQs attacks is like Curtana. So they would cut through Phases. And she fires trillions of those at once each and every one of them at least powerful enough to dust a planet. You would bet people would notice trillions of attacks from another phase erase crap on Earth.

To that comes that the WQ rewrote the laws of reality after the secret war. If Bloodsign were part of ToAru that would mean as much as that she changed the fundamental rules behind all phases and the pure world at once. Remember the uproar when the elements were unbalanced with Fiamma fixing them at stuff? You would imagine something like that but on the scale of all mythologies would raise an eyebrow.

Additionally, the real ruling class of all supernatural powers in ToAru would be the Unexplored-Class then. So in order for Aleister to destroy magic he would for example not just have to erase all Phases, but also win a war against the Unexplored Class. They would be more powerful than the MGs as well. And no user of supernatural powers even considered them, despite magic in ToAru being much more advanced than in Bloodsign. (Bloodsign magicians can rarely do more than magically create a stick... well, and summon stuff)

Well they are called Unexplored for a reason. Namely that their gods beyond the ones known with Blood Sign being the only known setting to interact with them or know of their existence. Since the Magic system in Blood Sign is such that summoning other worldly beings is the only thing that could be done, this one skill was hyper focused on and perfected to the point where they reached summoning the Unexplored compared to Toaru. For example, the Regulation class, an entire race of artificial Materials made by Blood Sign humanity and implemented into reality just for the sole purpose of reaching the gods (Materials of the Divine-class)

The only thing Secret War did was White Queen taking control of the rest of the Unexplored Class with her taking over their roles and powers and messing only with history of the Blood Sign verse. Divine and Regulation and their worlds were affected no less differently than before other than the new boss running everything and she has no interest in messing with anything other than the setting of Blood Sign given her literally single-minded obsession with the protagonist Kyouske and nothing else.

Also, Crowley has no reason to pursue them even if he did know of them since its human-made Magic and the Magic Gods he despises. The Unexplored are treated as just the natural order of how the world functions and don’t directly mess with humans to the point of being unknown for so long while Magic Gods and Magic actively distort that balance and create unpredictable chaos.

She made it sound like this would not have happened if she had not made them, but you must not forget. Magic is a technique of distorting the world's causality for your own purposes. It does not only produce the obvious phenomena right in front of you. It is a dangerous technique that will follow an unexpected path to later cause an unexpected change without the magic user even knowing about it. Aleister Crowley had loathed that and called it sparks and spray.

 

[Mr.OMG]

Remember those times when Paxton joked about megaverse+ at ToAru almost every day, there were good days.

 

[Paxton]

Remember those times when Paxton joked about megaverse+ at ToAru almost every day, there were good days.

To Aru still caps at universal, sorry bucko.

Genis >>> No Aru.

 

[Paxton]

That reminds me, what exactly was the calc result for Accelerator's wall throw again? Can't seem to find it.

 

[Mr.OMG]

I tried using Deepl, and this is what happened

But she is the type of person who would get herself involved to death, so she is a
-She is a terrible selfish girl.
Othinus has resurfaced. As a "demon god," he is an equal to Tangram.
He appears as a "demon god" who can speak on equal terms with Tangram.
In the scenarios that take place in between, the world of "Geisho Nichiroku" and the world of "Virtua Ron

 

[Astaro]

Wonder if Othinus or even you the player fight the Tangram since it was a boss in Virtual-On.

Admittedly nowhere near as overpowered as Toaru’s version of it: It’s a highly sophisticated A.I. that gained sentience and has some control over probability and reality through its technology vs the multiverse-spanning god merely taking the form of a machine that represents the concept of technological advancement itself

 

[One and Only]

That reminds me, what exactly was the calc result for Accelerator's wall throw again? Can't seem to find it.

Neatest I could find:

That's still an order of magnitude too high.

Given a mass of 6e+24 kg and a radius of 6.37e+8 cm, the moment of inertia of the Earth (assuming a perfect sphere) should be 9.738456e+37 kg*m^2.

86164.09 seconds in one day = 0.00417807464803492963251860490838 degrees per second = 2.5788988359886E+29 Joules
86464.09 after Accelerator = 0.00416357819760781614656442923299 degrees per second = 2.5610341370152E+29 Joules

Accelerator siphoned off: 1786469897340000000000000000 J.

426,976,552,901,529,600 tons, less than 427 petatons of tnt.

From this humourous thread; https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/accelerator-vs-saitama.348810/post-37988658