To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[One and Only]

I vaguely remember it being mentioned in this thread that True Gremlin might not be able to use Aleister's exact spells because they operated on different fundamentals.

I've been thinking "what about Index?". Is there any part of Toaru magic system that Index knowledge does not cover?

 

[Paxton]

Index most likely can't use pure elements, although she definitely knows of their existence

 

[Astaro]

I know there have been things even Index was duped on but can’t put my finger on it. Also, first synopsis for GT10 is out







So much for this being Accelerator’s chance to shine for the first time since NT22 or Touma being written out of the story for at least a while.

Poor man just can’t catch a break.

^ Soldier = Touma, child = the entire world at this point.

Happy to see it sound like it will be focused on Othinus though. Out of all the characters he’s ever teamed up with in past volumes, Touma’s got the best chemistry with Othinus IMO

The wisecracking to each other, the bickering like a married couple, and all while genuinely caring for each other and working together and Othinus proving time and again how even with no power and reduced to only a few centimeters in size, she’s far more competent and in control of situations than you’d expect someone in her state to be.

 

[Paxton]

Accelerator's lucky he hasn't left his prison cell yet

CRC would just shut his ability down with his willpower

 

[Astaro]

Those headless Alice illustrations will be creepy AF too

 

[Paxton]

- NT22R

Anna Sprengel can tame/subdue Coronzon in Da'at/the Abyss.

- GT8

Anna Sprengel, even with the full power of her Secret Chief (Aiwass) is incapable of defeating Kingsford, noting that she'd need to manipulate Alice or use the Shrink Drink that contains a portion of her power to do so.




(I'm leaving this here for indexing purposes)

On a related note regarding these quotes that Anna Sprengel has..

“Anna Sprengel holds a position similar to a priestess, but she actually has complete control of a superior being like Aiwass and has become a legendary magician greater even than a Magic God.
Yet she always travels on foot and directly appears before her enemies. Why? Sure, you can say she does it for fun or on a whim since she’s the strongest, but I see a simpler theory.”
“You mean she doesn’t have anyone else to rely on?” stated Kamijou in a daze.”

- GT4

Othinus, a former Magic God herself, states that Anna Sprengel is a legendary magician capable of having complete control over even a higher being like Aiwass.

Essentially, Othinus admits inferiority to her.

This was the great treasure built up in order to overpower all of the Magic Gods, including full-power Othinus.
That meant this battle would be just as…no, more hellish than that battle.
And Aiwass was not the only one here.
Aleister made an announcement as if whispering.
“The Blasting Rod.”
That support spell would amplify an attack’s power to ten times what the target thought it would be.
It was now a solid wall.
Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass had been amplified ten times.
Kamijou did not even have time to fix his dislocated shoulder. He grabbed his unreliably dangling right wrist with his left hand and forcibly pulled it forward just in time for the direct clash to hit.
His feet rose from the floor.
His body flew through the air and his back slammed into a colorless and invisible wall.
“G…bh!?Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!?”
A dull sound he had never heard before burst from within his body.
To be clear, this was what happened after Imagine Breaker negated everything it could.

- NT18

The narration makes it abundantly clear that even this form of Aiwass (who isn't at his full power, compared to Anna Sprengel using his full power in GT), is at least as strong as Othinus, if not more so.

Imagine Breaker also outright fails to negate the potency of Aiwass' attacks after he gets amplified by ten times with the Blasting Rod, courtesy of our favorite British weirdo that hates magic.

(leaving this here for indexing purposes)

 

[Paxton]

Was it Mathers who had said the Secret Chiefs had the physical appearance of those who had drunk the Elixir of Life?
They were a similar yet different sort of being from the Magic Gods.
They were experts with superhuman skill.
Some might call them the people who guided humanity from the shadows while giving approval for the establishment and management of all magic cabals…but that might be trusting Westcott’s claims a little too much.
Technically, he had never said the Secret Chiefs were Rosicrucian experts, but the Golden cabal had undeniably been focused on the Rosen.
After all (according to Westcott), it was the Rosicrucians who had given permission for their magic cabal to be established, so the Golden only existed to promote the Rosen. If the Rosen turned out to be frauds, then their own reputation would take a hit as well.However, Anna Sprengel was not actually a Secret Chief.
She was something like a priestess capable of contacting them at will.
Comparing Aiwass with Othinus might help clarify the difference between Secret Chiefs and Magic Gods.
“There’s no point in going to the trouble of becoming a Secret Chief when you can set up a position for yourself that lets you draw on their power.
Those transcendent beings are like credit cards.”

- NT22R

The narration explains the dynamic between Magic Gods and Abyss crossers/Secret Chiefs.

Essentially, while Magic Gods possess overwhelming and convenient "power" in regards to them creating phases (something that Abyss crossers and Secret Chiefs mostly cannot do), Magic Gods would be overwhelmed through sheer refined skill and magical power.

To quote an individual by the name of chickenlover43 on Reddit..

If secret chiefs are like admins, abyss walkers and more importantly true experts are like skilled hackers who change up the game themselves, and magic gods are just playing on creative mode.

(this is also here for indexing purposes)

 

[Paxton]

Does anyone remember any other instances where Imagine Breaker is outright just not strong enough to negate stuff?

I know it happened against CRC and his STRONG CARBON, but I don't recall any other instances.

 

[Astaro]

Level 6 Misaka’s Black sphere, Thor’s Arc Fusion Blades at 2 kilometer lengths, Accelerator’s Black Wings, Leivinia’s Telesma summoning (I think), Carissa’s explosion move, any of Aiwass’ attacks, Coronzon’s Magick Flaming Sword come to mind

 

[Paxton]

Level 6 Misaka’s Black sphere, Thor’s Arc Fusion Blades at 2 kilometer lengths, Accelerator’s Black Wings, Leivinia’s Telesma summoning (I think), Carissa’s explosion move, any of Aiwass’ attacks, Coronzon’s Magick Flaming Sword come to mind

I mean stuff that he fails to negate because of raw potency, not because it has a continuous power source behind it.

Otherwise, I would've mentioned Innocentius and a bunch of those examples.

 

[Paxton]

Spoiler: GT9 illustration, in case anyone reading this hasn't read GT9 yet

I just noticed that it looks like Touma's shadow is the universe (with stars and stuff) itself being casted over the ground.

Given the cosmic levels of power that Dragon King Touma has in this state, it's pretty fitting.

Neat.

 

[Astaro]

I mean stuff that he fails to negate because of raw potency, not because it has a continuous power source behind it.

Otherwise, I would've mentioned Innocentius and a bunch of those examples.

That is the case for all the above mentioned

 

[Paxton]

The scene where Stiyl is explaining how vampire immortality works.

nah but really what quote were you referring to

I'm looking over OT2 rn and I can't find what you're talking about

 

[Cryso Agori]

nah but really what quote were you referring to

I'm looking over OT2 rn and I can't find what you're talking about

Literally where Stiyl says that magic is like purifying oil to gas the very first pages.

 

[Paxton]

Literally where Stiyl says that magic is like purifying oil to gas the very first pages.

This?

 

[Cryso Agori]

This?

Yeah

 

[Paxton]

I feel like I'm retarded because I don't see the quote where it says that amplifying physicals is something every magician can do.

All I see is that they refine their life force into mana.. which is like, ok I already know this.

 

[Cryso Agori]

I feel like I'm retarded because I don't see the quote where it says that amplifying physicals is something every magician can do.

All I see is that they refine their life force into mana.. which is like, ok I already know this.

They can refine there life force into mana, and then use that mana to amp there physicals lol. Anyway superhuman feats for Magicians exist already too, Oriana Thompson being fine getting shot iirc.

 

[Paxton]

“Still, I never expected this to happen. Is this a sign of the world malfunctioning because that which refuses to break down is clogging up the circulation?”
“You mean Aiwass?”
“And Anna Sprengel.”
After saying that, Aleister turned over her hand.
“Is that what you thought I would say?”
“…?”
“You caused this yourself. There were a few past opportunities for the stopper to fail: against Fiamma of the Right, against Magic God Othinus, and against Aiwass too I suppose. …But you went too far this time. The lock has broken. What do you intend to do about that which refuses to break down and lurks within?”
In other words.
In other words.
In other words.
The short-haired Crosser of the Abyss gave the answer.
Using knowledge normal people could never reach.
“The biggest problem is Kamijou Touma and the power of his right hand. There is no holding that in anymore.”

-NT22

“Of course. My job is to fix the circulation. And that creates the next age. Once, the majority of the Sephirah were under attack. If the Second Adam had not atoned with blood, the world would not have lasted this long. And the critical clogs are all born of knowledge.

- also NT22 (iirc)

One of the things within Touma is the very being responsible for the attack on the Sephiroth, the subsequent cause of sparks and sprays (which went unnoticed by practically every character in the series), and then the subsequent distortion of the laws of the world/the distortion of the Four Elements/Four Worlds.

(also here for indexing purposes)

 

[Paxton]

holy FUCK how did I gloss over this quote when I read NT22