To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[One and Only]

Just finally noticed Paxton and Astaro's fight lol.

@Paxton have you forgotten Anna Kingsford. By your logic she also like top five of the verse currently but she only uses stuff novice magicians can do except mastered to the extreme.

Novice magicians can't even imagine to do super special stuff like pure elements, beriah laws, and what not. Yet Kingsford can throw down with the very strongest without exclusive perks.

That means in the end. All those unique and special powers in Toaru are flavouring and aesthetics. You don't need to climb a tree or do some meta bullshit. You can match the strongest with the basics. All that matters is feats because Toaru system lets you do pretty much anything with time. Anything.

And magic gods have the best feats.

 

[Astaro]

Yetzirah, Briah, Atziluth / Aeons is literally God Ki in Dragon Ball. It offers neat perks and can certainly lead you to being one of the top dogs of the setting but just like God Ki can be outdone by regular Ki from hard enough work and powerful enough individuals (Jiren, Black Frieza, Broly) Mages who stayed within the Surface world / Assiah can match them by simply mastering their craft to a high enough level

And doing some rereading, Phases are literally introduced in NT9 as the various places religions and mythology are set in. And Othinus herself states she didn’t destroy them initially only because it’s easier to alter Phases already existing rather than destroy and remake from the ground up, not that she can’t destroy them.

Othinus spoke in a disinterested tone.

“Have you ever heard of phases?”

“…?”

“This world was not pure and untouched to begin with. Christian, Buddhist, Celtic, Indian, Shinto, Incan, Aztec, Greek, Roman…and Norse. The various religions have placed layer after layer of various phases over the world like thin veils or filters. There is heaven, hell, the underworld, the Pure Land, Yomi, the abyss, Mount Olympus, the fairy island, Nirai Kanai, Asgard, and many others. At any rate, the world you have seen so far has been viewed through various colors of cellophane.”

“You haven’t destroyed any of those colored glasses.”

As his vision wavered and he was unsure who he was speaking to, Kamijou managed to keep his mouth moving.

“When it comes down to it, you are a person who creates. It may be filled with malice and it may be similar to representing ‘crushing a house’ as ‘creating a pile of rubble’, but it does not change what you are. You are a person who creates.”

“Call me a god. And what I have done is simple. I have created new filters and placed them over the world so the world appears to have changed. That is why the world appeared changed to you. This is a lot easier than destroying everything and building it back up every time. And your right hand contains the power to level out any foreign elements in the world, so it has difficulty functioning when I change the world itself. …Still, results are everything in the world. In the end, history will record it like this: the Magic God repeatedly destroyed the world and created new ones to make a single boy suffer as much as possible.”

Later on when she fights for real, she destroys every Phase

In other words, the instant that lance left Othinus's hands, the world would be blown to pieces.

Time returned to normal.

Kamijou once more felt space spread out around him.

As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the "happy world" was smashed to pieces as if space itself was being torn apart. As a fragment of the world approached with the force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole.

Everything was ripped up.

The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself.

Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying anything. This may have been a change brought about by adding a new phase into the world. Nevertheless, it was blatantly obvious what the scene before Kamijou's eyes would produce. It was the same as referring to the utter destruction of a luxurious palace as "creating a pile of rubble". This was undeniably a torrent of destruction.

The convenience of the world of man meant nothing.

The destruction carried out by the god took precedence.

Its greatest effect was causing any resisting human who saw it to give up.

It provided such an overwhelming feeling of resignation that even an experienced hero would fall to his knees and end his challenge.

Most likely, no one could have escaped that lance when attacked head on. No matter what form of defense or evasion they attempted, they would have had no hope of surviving. That attack had been given the parameter of "no human can oppose it". Unless one left the territory of man, one would be smashed to pieces. Not even Fiamma of the Right or Ollerus could have done anything when faced with it.

Once more, re-iterated that she literally destroyed every single Phase

"It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few voices lurked within where no one could interfere.

Othinus and Kamijou Touma had been wrong about one thing.

They had thought that world of darkness had been the full extent of the world. They had assumed that pitch black despair had been the product of destroying everything and leaving nothing at all behind.

But in truth, there had been one more layer. It was as uniform as a thin membrane, it had not even the slightest seam, and it could not be detected or destroyed by anyone, but one last phase had existed.

Seems pretty silly to argue despite all the above that somehow all those religious Phases are still present when the quotes say otherwise and that she has no way to interact with them.

I mean shit. She literally created the Phase of Norse Mythology

 

[Paxton]

Othinus didn't destroy the religious phases because the story explicitly says they're not located in the surface world.

What is there to argue?

 

[Paxton]

Where tf did you get her creating the phase of Norse mythology from?

her being the influence behind Odin = / = she created it directly

 

[Paxton]

The whole reason Magic Gods are so strong is because they cheated their way into Keter and the reason why singular Dainsleif calamities can destroy the surface world is because they're higher beings brought down from higher sephirah.

This really isn't that hard to understand.


Kingford is an exception, not the rule.
And she IS top five, there's no question about that.

 

[Astaro]

Since she obviously destroyed more than just the Surface World when the book unamibuously states she destroyed every single Phase, Pax

The Magic Gods are creators of the vast majority of Phases, hence why their destruction to prevent anymore Phases being made is important in Aleister’s plan for a world with no other Phases, it’s not hard to figure Othinus created the Norse world based on this

This is some serious next level coping

 

[Paxton]

Which is contradicted by later information explicitly saying they only affect the surface world.

 

[Astaro]

You mean that they choose to say within the Surface World.

Feats > statements

 

[Paxton]

You mean that they choose to say within the Surface World.

Magic Gods didn't "choose" to stay in the surface world after achieving that status.

That's all they had left as an option.

Becoming a Magic God cuts off their evolution as magicians.

Post the quote where it's said they chose to do so.

 

[Astaro]

Magic Gods didn't "choose" to stay in the surface world after achieving that status.

That's all they had left as an option.

Becoming a Magic God cuts off their evolution as magicians.

Post the quote where it's said they chose to do so.

That’s up to you to prove actually because this is the best you’ve put for you headcanon which is little more than shit talking from Coronzon who can’t back up their bite when the best they can manage is rivaling Othinus with an attack fired from the very top of that mountain their describing and stalemating a nerfed Magic God before having to flee and Qliphah Puzzle whose a literal nobody by herself and w/ Accel can barely handle a nerfed Magic God

“Don’t screw with me, you fool who refuses to break down. You are no more than someone who decided to stop partway up the mountain."

“Magic God, you still cling to the surface!! So don’t think you stand a chance against my master who has crossed the Abyss!!!”
An explosive noise burst out.

Again, feats > empty statements, Pax. Niang-Niang herself says this narrow minded view is a poor means of measuring one’s powers when she tells Coronzon not to base her capabilities off her being within Assiah

Again, Othinus destroyed every phase in the same novel that mentions all those religious and mythological ones (created by Magic Gods anyway) are included. Twice.

 

[Paxton]

inane cope regarding power levels when Magic Gods explicitly say they're limited to the surface world in that pure elements quote you brought up just now
You literally just said on previous pages that you agree with me

"They don’t cross the Abyss or reach higher Worlds than Assiah because they literally don’t need to in order to pull off even better feats anyway."


Yeah you're trolling.

 

[Paxton]

Coronzon and nerfed true Gremlin are >>> Othinus

why are you backpedalling on what you said before?

 

[Astaro]

"They don’t cross the Abyss or reach higher Worlds than Assiah because they literally don’t need to in order to pull off even better feats anyway."


Yeah you're trolling.

And your coping

 

[Astaro]

Coronzon and nerfed true Gremlin are >>> Othinus

why are you backpedalling on what you said before?

No, Coronzon’s just barely over Othinus. Her strongest spell rivals Othinus Gungnir and just barely managed to destroy Touma based.

Her being able to stalemate Nerfed True Gremlin is something Othinus should be able to pull off too as well

 

[Paxton]

a singular Dainsleif calamity can kill a Magic God and I'm supposed to believe Othinus destroyed dozens of phases with beings of similar power level in them?

 

[Astaro]

a singular Dainsleif calamity can kill a Magic God and I'm supposed to believe Othinus destroyed dozens of phases with beings of similar power level in them?

citation needed

 

[Paxton]

No, Coronzon’s just barely over Othinus. Her strongest spell rivals Othinus Gungnir and just barely managed to destroy Touma based.

Her being able to stalemate Nerfed True Gremlin is something Othinus should be able to pull off too as well

Wrong.

Nerfed true Gremlin are still capable of destroying the surface world even when nerfed.

Coronzon fights with them on an even level.

Flaming;Sword is WAY above Gungnir.

 

[Paxton]

citation needed

Gladly. I found this while going through NT10 (for a different quote entirely, funnily enough)

"The power refined to kill a Magic God was being turned toward a mere boy, yet she could not stop it."

 

[Paxton]

I could also bring up Othinus admitting inferiority to Sprengel and Aiwass in GT4, or the narration in NT18 directly stating that Aiwass is at least more powerful than Othinus in that moment..

Which would support nerfed true Gremlin being at least ~ Othinus

 

[Paxton]

I'm not sure why you even say Flaming;Sword is only at the level of Gungnir when it blatantly does more damage to Touma than Gungnir did and basic scaling already puts Coronzon at a level above Othinus