To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Top59]

Remind me, where the hell did people get the idea that going FTL is "impossible" in To Aru due to how it treats relativity or something like that?

I think they're probably referring to Coronzon escaping WR

Basically.

In To Aru is mentioned that the Windowless Building was going near speed of light and by relativity it reached the WR timeline.

The point is that the building is supposed to have left the solar system and returned in one night iirc and although the limit of the solar system may be between beyond Pluto or at the end of Kuiper, going and returning in one night would imply low FTL speed but still, so it must have been faster than light, plus it gives the impression that when Corozon took control of the ship she returned almost instantaneously to Earth that, even though it was from another timeline, it must have been a similar distance so that it would not occur account.

Alice throw things at MFTL and that wouldn't just be throwing speed because her powers can affect her physical stats and she should be able to move at that speed if she wants to, there was no relativity effect in that case either.

Another thing is that Coronzon was crossing between timelines with a punch so her punch is almost light speed? is it FTL? Or is he so strong to do that, period?

Big Bang Bomb is MFTL, Othinus Arrows MFTL, Othinus move stars at MFTL speeds, Gabriel move stars at MFTL soooo...

Because if the argument that they can't move faster than light is by relativity, they couldn't move or launch things much faster than light either.

 

[Top59]

It's Nogi (Mental Out's mangaka) explaining some things from the chapter ^

 

[Top59]

 

[Paxton]

It no longer mattered whether or not the sprinklers were running. She could not get between those two on a more fundamental level. There was no longer an opening for her fake tears there. [...] “I don’t need any calculations or math here.” Academy City’s #1 spat out the blood in his mouth and silently clenched his fist. That purified white monster had ascended to the point that he could say these words. “Real tears carry even more weight than blood. So you’re gonna have to do a hell of a lot of crying to make up for what you did, you piece of shit.”

So I just got reminded of this quote by @Churronzon in the Kamachiland Discord and uh...

 

[Top59]

So I just got reminded of this quote by @Churronzon in the Kamachiland Discord and uh...

I passed it a while ago in Narutoforum, I think it is not clear if it is an expression or a metaphor or if it refers to the fact that he no longer needs to calculate to use his reflection.

Still, for a vs standard I don't think that changes much.

 

[Paxton]

I passed it a while ago in Narutoforum, I think it is not clear if it is an expression or a metaphor or if it refers to the fact that he no longer needs to calculate to use his reflection.

Still, for a vs standard I don't think that changes much.

I mean, it's literally stating that it doesn't matter if he has vector control/reflection up or not.

I'd think that's pretty noteworthy

Especially because I don't recall Nephthys actually winning for most of their fight.
Hell, she bypasses his reflection and actually lands a genuine kick on him, and he obviously didn't get splattered.

I feel like there's a lot more stuff of a similar nature that we may have glossed over in that batch of volumes.

 

[Paxton]

Why would he not need to calculate anyway?

Clonoth shenanigans?

 

[Paxton]

(Super To Aru Revision) A Certain Magical Revision Genesis Testament

Purpose Hey, hey, fanta here! ... Y'know the purpose of this CRT, so... Let's just get to the point. This CRT's Purpose is to upgrade the Top Tiers/HighTiers/Anybody who isn't High 1-C Being via the number of calculations I've created and the number of calculations I've found in Reference of...

vsbattles.com

I don't know what's going on in this thread but god damn this is a lot

 

[Paxton]

Ok, wow uh, Accelerator really did take multiple hits from Nephthys without his wings out.

“Yes, this is fun, so much fun!! Ah ha ha! Eh heh heh! That’s right! What really matters is a chance to fight without having to worry about the consequences! Who needs all that angst!? All you need is that feeling of a solid punch or kick! You really are the kind of opponent I was looking for, Accelerator!!!!!!”

No way in hell she was holding back here, what the fuck

 

[Top59]

I read a part of that thread, Accelerator shakes the galaxy not the universe, using the creation of dimensions with stars I don't see it as the same as moving stars but it should be noted that here in the OBD that remembers that method of measuring the creation of dimensions is not take.

I also know that the obd has other energy values with respect to Vsbattle, for example kilofoe and megafoe feats here are Small Galaxy but in Vsbattle it is Solar System+ that amount of energy.

Now that Accelerator's galaxy-shaking attack scales to Coronzon (which in turn would scale to other characters) I don't see it as bad, I suppose, although it is a matter of discussion.

Astro Hand I have always thought that it scales to Fiamma LPSD because of that its power exceeds the Archangels, ok now about scaling Acqua from the sweep I don't know, yes he drained a percentage of Gabriel's energy so ironically it would make more sense scale from the suicide attack since it is literally Gabriel releasing all his energy from her body and it is better in fact, that logic would make the Saints planet level, I personally do not agree with that level for the Saints but if they use that logic then it should be compared to suicide attack.

 

[Paxton]

I read a part of that thread, Accelerator shakes the galaxy not the universe, using the creation of dimensions with stars I don't see it as the same as moving stars but it should be noted that here in the OBD that remembers that method of measuring the creation of dimensions is not take.

I also know that the obd has other energy values with respect to Vsbattle, for example kilofoe and megafoe feats here are Small Galaxy but in Vsbattle it is Solar System+ that amount of energy.

Now that Accelerator's galaxy-shaking attack scales to Coronzon (which in turn would scale to other characters) I don't see it as bad, I suppose, although it is a matter of discussion.

Astro Hand I have always thought that it scales to Fiamma LPSD because of that its power exceeds the Archangels, ok now about scaling Acqua from the sweep I don't know, yes he drained a percentage of Gabriel's energy so ironically it would make more sense scale from the suicide attack since it is literally Gabriel releasing all his energy from her body and it is better in fact, that logic would make the Saints planet level, I personally do not agree with that level for the Saints but if they use that logic then it should be compared to suicide attack.

So what's your opinion on all those statements about Accelerator being flat out superior to Nephthys?

 

[Top59]

So what's your opinion on all those statements about Accelerator being flat out superior to Nephthys?

I always saw it as she was seriously hitting him but the field decreased the damage Accelerator took since Nepht fractured with each hit and probably Accelerator did something similar when he took Misha's sweep, which "passed" the field but somehow Accelerator decreased the damage.

Be careful, post-NT22 Accelerator is super human in durability without his field, yes, I'm just not sure if we can assume that without wings or field he is equally physically durable as a Nerf Magic Gods.

 

[Paxton]

I always saw it as she was seriously hitting him but the field decreased the damage Accelerator took since Nepht fractured with each hit and probably Accelerator did something similar when he took Misha's sweep, which "passed" the field but somehow Accelerator decreased the damage.

Be careful, post-NT22 Accelerator is super human in durability without his field, yes, I'm just not sure if we can assume that without wings or field he is equally physically durable as a Nerf Magic Gods.

That's the issue though, there's no mention of him "decreasing" the damage that gets through and it's even said that whether or not the sprinklers were on (aka his vector control being active or not), that it didn't matter.

It even goes on to say that he "ascended" to the point where she could truly do nothing to him.

So honestly, I don't know at this point

 

[Paxton]

Hell, even in that thread I posted, Fanta posts a bunch of instances of Accelerator having superhuman durability, and I feel like claiming that "every" instance there was due to vector control/wings is a bit silly.

 

[Paxton]

Nevermind, I may have been a bit too hasty with those quotes

 

[One and Only]

That's the issue though, there's no mention of him "decreasing" the damage that gets through and it's even said that whether or not the sprinklers were on (aka his vector control being active or not), that it didn't matter.

It even goes on to say that he "ascended" to the point where she could truly do nothing to him.

So honestly, I don't know at this point

Hell, even in that thread I posted, Fanta posts a bunch of instances of Accelerator having superhuman durability, and I feel like claiming that "every" instance there was due to vector control/wings is a bit silly.

Actually why not? I don't really think it's silly. In fact I think it makes a whole lot of sense.

Like first of all let me mention some info for consideration.
- Vector Change operates on a quantum level or at least cellular level example is Kakine DM, Saving Last Order etc Accelerator can also be insanely precise example in the first Kakine fight where no one died and the numerous times Accel uses an over the top attack on normies but only incapacitate them.

- Vector Change can generate arbitrary amounts of conventional forces example is basically anytime Accel fights.

- Accel has ridiculous calculation power and to some extent this translates to reaction time.

- Vector Change covers his internal body to some extent and also operates on a quantum or at least cellular level. We see this from his self surgeries, regrowing his hair etc...

- We know that Ringo uses her ability in a manner akin to Accelerator. When she uses it to simulate super strength and speed however her body and internal organs tears itself apart. Which will never happen to Accelerator no matter how much forces he's using to amp himself.

Do you see where I'm going here? The most likely explanation is Accel can simply simulate super strength and durability even when Reflection isn't active. Most abilities that bypass Reflection don't make Vector Control disappear. Accelerator still has Vector Change in most counts it's just that it doesn't work directly on the invading ability.

The simulated stats that Accel has would be limited to how much conventional dakka he can output on the spot so it's still infinitely inferior to Vector Change but it will prevent him from being instantly splattered in case of Vector Change failure.

Ultimately this is just headcanon but IMO it's makes more sense than assuming superhuman durability Accel. Even if he has seemingly super durability feats so does Touma. Applying super durability for the initial reason would also apply for Touma. Which I'm not against for the record. I just think my explanation makes more sense.

 

[Top59]

Hell, even in that thread I posted, Fanta posts a bunch of instances of Accelerator having superhuman durability, and I feel like claiming that "every" instance there was due to vector control/wings is a bit silly.

The person who made such an exciting appearance had long silver hair, brown skin, and bandages that were wrapped around her. Her bare foot had forced its way through the vector reflection barrier and kicked the #1 through the air. Her leg ended up twisted at an unnatural angle, but that did not keep her from laughing. The broken leg wriggled in a way no human leg ever should as the bone and joint were repaired. It happened so easily it was like seeing a balloon being inflated.

Obviously my point of view is more head cannon than something said verbatim in the novel but Nepht broke her leg when she kicked Accelerator so the vector field influenced the leg and not in a small way if it was broken.

 

[Paxton]

Actually why not? I don't really think it's silly. In fact I think it makes a whole lot of sense.

Like first of all let me mention some info for consideration.
- Vector Change operates on a quantum level or at least cellular level example is Kakine DM, Saving Last Order etc Accelerator can also be insanely precise example in the first Kakine fight where no one died and the numerous times Accel uses an over the top attack on normies but only incapacitate them.

- Vector Change can generate arbitrary amounts of conventional forces example is basically anytime Accel fights.

- Accel has ridiculous calculation power and to some extent this translates to reaction time.

- Vector Change covers his internal body to some extent and also operates on a quantum or at least cellular level. We see this from his self surgeries, regrowing his hair etc...

- We know that Ringo uses her ability in a manner akin to Accelerator. When she uses it to simulate super strength and speed however her body and internal organs tears itself apart. Which will never happen to Accelerator no matter how much forces he's using to amp himself.

Do you see where I'm going here? The most likely explanation is Accel can simply simulate super strength and durability even when Reflection isn't active. Most abilities that bypass Reflection don't make Vector Control disappear. Accelerator still has Vector Change in most counts it's just that it doesn't work directly on the invading ability.

The simulated stats that Accel has would be limited to how much conventional dakka he can output on the spot so it's still infinitely inferior to Vector Change but it will prevent him from being instantly splattered in case of Vector Change failure.

Ultimately this is just headcanon but IMO it's makes more sense than assuming superhuman durability Accel. Even if he has seemingly super durability feats so does Touma. Applying super durability for the initial reason would also apply for Touma. Which I'm not against for the record. I just think my explanation makes more sense.

Oh no, I know all that, but the quotes in particular weren't that literal.
To quote how I explained it to a friend on Discord after looking over it..

1. it's not actually that deep
   
   
   
   
2. [11:41 PM]
   the first bolded part refers to how he'd continue to fight no matter what the circumstance
   
   
   
   
3. [11:41 PM]
   the second part being that calculations or math aren't relevant for what he was trying to do in that instance
   
   
   
   
4. [11:42 PM]
   and the third bolded part was like, character development stuff

So yeah.

 

[Paxton]

Also, about Touma having superhuman durability..

Remember how he couldn't fully nullify Accelerator's wings? The wings fueled by the same energy that gives him enhanced durability?


I think you see what I'm getting at.

 

[Top59]

Also, about Touma having superhuman durability..

Remember how he couldn't fully nullify Accelerator's wings? The wings fueled by the same energy that gives him enhanced durability?


I think you see what I'm getting at.

Accelerator when he takes out his wings his durability is completely comparable to his power, for example stopping Eurasia's attack leaves him as an example and Index mentions that he is more powerful than a Saint when he took out his black wings for the first time, which is an important point since Index doesn't know about Espers powers or the vector field but says it because of the energy/telesma that his body releases.

You also have Kakine when he grew his wings and Accelerator with the black wings begins to beat him up, we see that Kakine resisted several attacks including a kind of gravity control before being torn to pieces.

The thing is without the wings, since Nepht hit him before he took out the platinum wings.