To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - Touma's Boogaloo Edition

[Paxton]

Who would this scale to anyway?

 

[Astaro]

Angel Dragon’s durability. That’s about it

 

[Top59]

Who would this scale to anyway?

The black hole?

Being a Holistic Esper it would only scale Accelerator platinum wings (and those that scale from he) but since Accelerator has a better feat it is irrelevant.

Of the dragon devouring the energy of a black hole? Well, that gives weight to the editor's statement that the ice dragon is as hard as a planet, controversially it would scale to Misaka level 5.3, because according to the editor that Misaka's attack was so powerful that just one dragon was not enough and they should have leave several dragons among those the Angel Dragon.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Again, they're all in the same general ballpark of strength.

Um, what?

This is just the Archangels = MGs argument over again.

Higher beings can refer to beings who are extremely powerful or from phases. That doesn't mean they're all equal to each other. The archangels are individually comparable to individual phase beings, not MG's or Coronzon or Aleister.

 

[Paxton]

Um, what?

This is just the Archangels = MGs argument over again.

Higher beings can refer to beings who are extremely powerful or from phases. That doesn't mean they're all equal to each other. The archangels are individually comparable to individual phase beings, not MG's or Coronzon or Aleister.

You are aware characters can be certainly stronger or weaker than the other yet still scale somewhat, yes?
I've never once suggested that Archangels are literally equal to Magic Gods.

I mean, with all the Fate discussion that we've had you should be quite familiar with that concept

 

[Paxton]

Like I said, why would Mathers even bother summoning planet-solar system (also, you said multi solar system earlier, just wanted to point that out in case you missed that discrepancy) level Archangels when that'd be so far beneath Coronzon/Aiwass/nerfed Magic God tier opponents that it's not even funny.

It just wouldn't add up with what we know that strong enough Phase beings can do when even a fraction of their power enters reality.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Like I said, why would Mathers even bother summoning planet-solar system (also, you said multi solar system earlier, just wanted to point that out in case you missed that discrepancy) level Archangels when that'd be so far beneath Coronzon/Aiwass/nerfed Magic God tier opponents that it's not even funny.

It just wouldn't add up with what we know that strong enough Phase beings can do when even a fraction of their power enters reality.

You say that but like right after Aleister counters by oneshotting all four of them with Uriel's flames.

But Aleister simply twirled around.

The bottom of the palm staff scraped against the ground, orange sparks scattered, and it set ablaze.

This too was not found in the bible.

In fact, she called on the name of an angel who had been criticized for not being mentioned in the bible.

“Uriel is the excommunicated angel, a demon who fell to the depths of the earth. Uriel is one of the seven who was driven from their throne of light for humanity’s convenience and is not found in the stories of God. The canon is absolute. In the name of Pope Zachary, I shall smash your angel worship and thus your harmony with those four!!”

First, a protective circle appeared around the silver girl.

Then great waves of explosive flames burst out across the 180 degrees in front of her.

The fires of hell erupted from the depths of the earth and rejected the protector of their gate. Just like a red light covering up red writing. Once one collapsed, the others were dragged down with it. The four angels dissolved like a false image and the massive flames continued on to burn Mathers.

 

[Paxton]

You say that but like right after Aleister counters by oneshotting all four of them with Uriel's flames.

Uh, he BFR'd them back to the Heaven Phase.

He didn't literally one shot them with Uriel's flames.

Edit: I may be blind lmao

 

[Cryso Agori]

Uh, he BFR'd them back to the Heaven Phase.

He didn't literally one shot them with Uriel's flames.

Edit: I may be blind lmao

Right afterwards Aleister concentrates the spell and it's called pure firepower

They were twisted.

And distorted.

All of the flames Aleister had created gathered at a single point, took the shape of a lightbulb-like incandescent bronze pig, and then charged at the silver girl who had supposedly created them.

As soon as he stabbed it from above with his wand, it burst and spewed flames in every direction.

The pure firepower may have rivaled a nuclear weapon.

Which Mathers puts a shield against (it's also compared to a nuke because Kamachi has no idea of scale)

So yeah Mathers just summoned Archangels way weaker than him for the hell of it.

 

[Paxton]

So are you suggesting that the calamities that Dainsleif summoned are stronger than the actual Phase beings themselves?

 

[Paxton]

nuclear weapon level archangels lmao

 

[Cryso Agori]

So are you suggesting that the calamities that Dainsleif summoned are stronger than the actual Phase beings themselves?

No? Again Dainslef calamities can only perform Othinus's destruction when multiple of them exist in the same space. An individual calamity in the universe would probably only cause an effect like Angel Fall.

Each individual Archangel should be equal or just a little bit stronger than each individual Dainslef calamity, four of them clearly don't have enough power to destroy the universe or planet. Strain it to very nearly breaking but not actually. They are not powerful enough to be more than fodder against God-tiers.

 

[Paxton]

No? Again Dainslef calamities can only perform Othinus's destruction when multiple of them exist in the same space. An individual calamity in the universe would probably only cause an effect like Angel Fall.

Each individual Archangel be equal or just a little bit stronger than each individual Dainslef calamity, four of them clearly don't have enough power to destroy the universe or planet. Strain it to very nearly breaking but not actually. They are not powerful enough to be more than fodder against God-tiers.

Just divide the level of destruction by the amount of calamities present

 

[Paxton]

4 calamities = reality shattering power

1 calamity = only affects the planet

yeah, that makes sense

 

[Paxton]

It also doesn't make much sense for it to absolutely require multiple calamities to replicate the destruction because then why doesn't Marian only summon one?

And the calamities would be able to withstand that destruction anyway so...

 

[Cryso Agori]

It also doesn't make much sense for it to absolutely require multiple calamities to replicate the destruction

Because Othinus says so.

because then why doesn't Marian only summon one?

Because she can cut away space which makes it so the calamities don't effect the universe man. Did you forget?.

 

[Paxton]

Because Othinus says so.

Because she can cut away space which makes it so the calamities don't effect the universe man. Did you forget?.

Would the calamities still not be able to withstand said destruction anyway?

 

[Paxton]

Before the battle even began, Marian had likely used the sword to cut through the surrounding space and create a sort of barrier around the area. If she had not, the appearance of the different mythical figures would have created a mysterious phenomenon much like Angel Fall.
Or the power could have exceeded the limits of the world itself and everything would have shattered like glass.

Having destroyed the world herself, Othinus knew that was no exaggeration.

She doesn't even say that the collection of calamities (rather than just one individual) would cause reality to shatter for certain, just that it's a possibility or that a similar effect to Angel Fall would occur, which doesn't make much sense if we're assuming 1 calamity only = Angel Fall and multiple calamities = Othinus' destruction.

 

[Paxton]

No? Again Dainslef calamities can only perform Othinus's destruction when multiple of them exist in the same space. An individual calamity in the universe would probably only cause an effect like Angel Fall.

Each individual Archangel should be equal or just a little bit stronger than each individual Dainslef calamity, four of them clearly don't have enough power to destroy the universe or planet. Strain it to very nearly breaking but not actually. They are not powerful enough to be more than fodder against God-tiers.

This part also makes no sense.

"Each of them carried enough firepower to obliterate this unclean world. The pressure from Gabriel alone had caused the entire world to audibly strain to the breaking point when driven down from heaven by Angel Fall."

It's literally mentioned that they can do that.
The best hype a weakened Gabriel in OT got in terms of explicit raw strength hype was vaporizing merely half of the planet, and it specifically used the word "planet" in that context iirc.

So I'm kind of doubtful "world" is merely referring to just the planet, especially when we know even a weakened Gabriel can affect much more than just the planet with Astro in Hand/other spells at that level and the fact that it's not just the planet that's considered "unclean" or "clogged", but the entirety of Assiah/the Sephirot/creation itself.

 

[Cryso Agori]

She doesn't even say that the collection of calamities (rather than just one individual) would cause reality to shatter for certain, just that it's a possibility or that a similar effect to Angel Fall would occur, which doesn't make much sense if we're assuming 1 calamity only = Angel Fall and multiple calamities = Othinus' destruction.

Okay? Then Dainslef Calamities<Archangels doesn't really matter.

Fiamma doesn't get any universal scaling either way.