TYPE-Moon/Nasuverse Feats/General Thread
- Thread starter Xhominid The Apex
- Start date
To basically state it pointblank.
The Counter Force is basically a hodge-podge of 2 different sources that can sometimes run counter to themselves:
The Will of Gaia and The Will of Humanity(It's really easy to mess this up as usually in the Fate side, we see the Will of Humanity happen more often than the Will of Gaia which is more on Tsukihime's side).
Pissing off the Will of Humanity or getting on it's bad side will usually start deluging you with Servants/Counter Guardians or if you are a really major threat, Grand Servants. Counter Guardians are usually who are picked first and foremost and are actually sent if you become a danger to Humanity in any shape or form(To put it simply, EMIYA is a Counter Guardian and has been constantly sent to basically murder anyone and has been doing so and will do so eternally and there are many, MANY more like him). Servants are primarily sent next if it's a big dick threat like we see in FGO(Although it don't need to be that massive, just enough of a threat that Humanity really can be wiped out and it needs something bigger). And finally, you have Grand Servants who are explicitly meant to fight Beasts(Though they can be used for other things but they will void their Status if they actually team up with anyone as that's not what they are meant to do).
The Will of Gaia, meanwhile, doesn't actually activate when Humanity is threatened but when the Planet itself is threatened(i.e. Aliens as no being born on the Planet of their origin can threaten their Planet... this is what Da Vinci and Holmes meant people) in any way. While it COULD summon Servants, it doesn't actually do that... in fact, it would go much, MUCH deeper and actually summon Nature Spirits(Either at the level or just below a Divine Spirit usually, FYI EDIT: Whoops, fucked that up, they are actually STRONGER than Divine Spirits usually due to primarily using energy from the Planet itself), Phantasmals and True Ancestors. Arcueid is actually a part of this category as while she's more of a TYPE-Moon creation, Earth snatched her up as it's attempt of TYPE-Earth as it cannot create one yet). And then there's Fou which is in fact a creature meant to also cull Mankind because even though Humans can't kill Gaia, it still perceives them as a threat and wants to know whose in charge.
So basically put it like this:
Threaten Humanity and you'll have a deluge of Counter Guardians, Servants and Grand Servants on your ass.
Threaten the Planet and you are going to get Arcuied and beings similar to Primate Murder to get you... or hilariously enough, get someone to grab Excalibur and murk you to Kingdom Come(As the Planet literally had the Fairies create Excalibur to deal with Sefar's bullshit and it's THE Planetary weapon to do so)
Last edited:
But what really puts some dirt into the eye is that this isn't 100% either.
In the Multiverse of Tsukihime, The Counter Force of Humanity is explicitly weakened(Which is why the Dead Apostle Ancestors even have a group at all) and thus Servants cannot exist because Humanity isn't top dog in that Multiverse(OF COURSE, Artoria's existence in Type Lumina throws a massive wrench at that, more implying that Gaia can force Servants to manifest if it wanted to... maybe as Artoria is seriously special). Arcuied chiefly exists here and so does the True Ancestors primarily so The Counter Force of Gaia is more in effect here.
Meanwhile in the Fate Multiverse, The Counter Force of Humanity is strengthened and thus the Throne of Heroes exists and is completely operational. Arcuied, outside of a cameo appearance in Fate/Extra(which may imply she actually exists in the Fate Multiverse), is never really implied to exist in the Fate side but nothing is ever stated if she does(Though Nasu is open minded of having her appear in FGO but he wants Fate and Tsukihime to not really blend together so yeah).
The True Ancestors themselves is a ???(Before anyone gets at me, yes Yu Meiren can count as this but she technically isn't a TA... she's just REAL damn close) but Primate Murder/Fou still exists as well as other Potential Beasts of Gaia and Nature Spirits also very much exist(Yu Meiren is one of them and is as bullshit as they imply... and Case Files has another show up and is even more bullshit).
In the Multiverse of Tsukihime, The Counter Force of Humanity is explicitly weakened(Which is why the Dead Apostle Ancestors even have a group at all) and thus Servants cannot exist because Humanity isn't top dog in that Multiverse(OF COURSE, Artoria's existence in Type Lumina throws a massive wrench at that, more implying that Gaia can force Servants to manifest if it wanted to... maybe as Artoria is seriously special). Arcuied chiefly exists here and so does the True Ancestors primarily so The Counter Force of Gaia is more in effect here.
Meanwhile in the Fate Multiverse, The Counter Force of Humanity is strengthened and thus the Throne of Heroes exists and is completely operational. Arcuied, outside of a cameo appearance in Fate/Extra(which may imply she actually exists in the Fate Multiverse), is never really implied to exist in the Fate side but nothing is ever stated if she does(Though Nasu is open minded of having her appear in FGO but he wants Fate and Tsukihime to not really blend together so yeah).
The True Ancestors themselves is a ???(Before anyone gets at me, yes Yu Meiren can count as this but she technically isn't a TA... she's just REAL damn close) but Primate Murder/Fou still exists as well as other Potential Beasts of Gaia and Nature Spirits also very much exist(Yu Meiren is one of them and is as bullshit as they imply... and Case Files has another show up and is even more bullshit).
Last edited:
You mean the Fate/Tsukihime SECTION(s) of the multiverse?
Though I guess infinite(?) timelines divided by two is still infinite.
You mean the Fate/Tsukihime SECTION(s) of the multiverse?
Though I guess infinite(?) timelines divided by two is still infinite.
No, Fate and Tsukihime are two entirely different sides with 2 entirely different histories that literally cannot co-exist in the same timeline whatsoever(Again, Servants literally cannot even appear in the Tsukihime side which is impossible in the Fate side, no matter what due to the Humanity having a stronger hold on the Seat of Primacy compared to Tsukihime where they don't and the Dead Apostle Ancestor Side does).
That's why Nasu said what he did in that while he wants Arcuied in FGO, he doesn't want to blend the 2 Universes together as they are too different to ever put side by side: They literally cannot co-exist at once for any reason.
It's like trying to put Charlemagne as someone you can just summon when Karle De Grobe explicitly has more weight than Charlemagne outside of basically nonsensical shit like Humanity's grip being fractured enough to allow him to exist at all.
So they're two separate (Fate and Tsukihime) multiverses?
Yes and I know it sounds complicated but like I said before, The Throne of Heroes literally doesn't exist in the Tsukihime Universe or it's Time Trees(Alternate/Parallel Universes) whatsoever due to Humanity not being at the Top completely like they are in Fate. A number of events and people are massively different as well(including potentially entirely different last names as it's heavily implied Kiara Kisshioun is Kiara Sessyoin's Tsukihime's other self who ultimately refused to ascend unlike her Fate counterpart due to seeing how small she is on the cosmic scale).
Of course, not everyone is massively different(Touko and Aoko seem to ultimately be not that much different in the Fate or Tsukihime Universes which is honestly hilarious) and as I said before, Arcuied is sorta implied to exist in the Fate side because while I say Cameo and Nasu said Cameo, he never stated she wasn't canon and many TYPE-Moon artists and official media art still shows she exists in Fate/Extra) and it's also all but stated the Sefar incident happens no matter what(which is why the Decline of the Age of The Gods ever happened).
Type-Rey
Acclaimed
That's not true. Humanity is still the top dog in Tsukihime. Tsuki RE specifically mentions that the Church has made sure to hunt not only vampires but also all manner of Paragons or dominant species contenders over the centuries.
Type-Rey
Acclaimed
This is partially correct as up until a certain point, there wasn't a difference.
The two worlds split somewhere in 300 AD.
Yeah I tried to make that apparent but I believe I went too deep there which is why I included that the Sefar bit.
Oh, I thought they wasn't. I guess I took the "The scales aren't fully in tune with Humanity" to "Humanity aren't on the seat of Primacy" then.
Type-Rey
Acclaimed
Ok , gonna start posting character feats.
Disclaimer : Those are gonna be all over the place since they're collected from the whole Arc route and i'm gonna try to put them into context but don't expect something that is extremely organized since i don't have the time/energy to neatly organize them in a blog like Chaos does.
Still better than nothing and since no one else is bothering, i'm the best you'll get .
Anway, let's start with Arc with the reminder that everything she does here is her at 20-30 % percent which that even goes down as the story reaches its end point in the fight against Roa due to her refusing to feed and her impulses getting stronger and harder to contain
The most casual of her swings do this :
Disclaimer : Those are gonna be all over the place since they're collected from the whole Arc route and i'm gonna try to put them into context but don't expect something that is extremely organized since i don't have the time/energy to neatly organize them in a blog like Chaos does.
Still better than nothing and since no one else is bothering, i'm the best you'll get .
Anway, let's start with Arc with the reminder that everything she does here is her at 20-30 % percent which that even goes down as the story reaches its end point in the fight against Roa due to her refusing to feed and her impulses getting stronger and harder to contain
The most casual of her swings do this :
I mean, I don't care if you are inconsistent... I mean do I really have the right to talk?
Do I REALLY?
Just do whatever you want as long as you obviously back it up with stuff from the game and or series.
Speaking of that, I do need to finish Rama's section so I'll get on that when I finish Summer 5's story.
Do I REALLY?
Just do whatever you want as long as you obviously back it up with stuff from the game and or series.
Speaking of that, I do need to finish Rama's section so I'll get on that when I finish Summer 5's story.