TYPE-Moon/Nasuverse Feats/General Thread

[CrossTheHorizon]

You know, I didn't really mind the obvious over-hype for Suzuka and Touta since I feel like Touta doesn't get enough hype for what he did with the fucking gigapede monster, and I kinda liked that we finally get a real version of Ushi who is done with her brothers shit.

But goddamn the Ibuki stuff is just stupid. She's a Divine Spirit supposedly on par with the Machine Gods, even though she's only a fragment of Orochi (which I guess is why she has that sword). She copies Zeus' trick with the grav field. And every other sentence about or from her is "I am a god". This is the most hilariously blatant attempt to ride the coattails of the previous big threat I've seen in FGO.

IDK why they didn't just hype Orochi itself. Have the "general gods" be substitutes for Orochi's heads and Ibuki being the one to command them. That way we'd have gotten more scenes of them interacting, a way to build hype organically to her reveal, and you can explain away some tactical errors as "she's still a fucking oni" instead of "Douman is kind of dumb actually"

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

As a side-note its kinda funny how despite all the comparisons to the Olympian Gods, Ibuki gets completely destroyed by Super Orion

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

But goddamn the Ibuki stuff is just stupid. She's a Divine Spirit supposedly on par with the Machine Gods, even though she's only a fragment of Orochi (which I guess is why she has that sword). She copies Zeus' trick with the grav field. And every other sentence about or from her is "I am a god". This is the most hilariously blatant attempt to ride the coattails of the previous big threat I've seen in FGO.

IDK why they didn't just hype Orochi itself. Have the "general gods" be substitutes for Orochi's heads and Ibuki being the one to command them. That way we'd have gotten more scenes of them interacting, a way to build hype organically to her reveal, and you can explain away some tactical errors as "she's still a fucking oni" instead of "Douman is kind of dumb actually"

Because in the Nasuverse sense, Ibuki Douji IS the Avatar of Yamato No Orochi, even if only a fragment of the real thing.
And while yes, I can see them repeating it too much, It kinda makes sense considering how bullshit Orochi really is in Japanese Mythology(Seriously, if Susann'O, the guy who is literally the equivalent to Poseidon, has to make you drink Sake and get your ass drunk to kill you...)

But yes, her entire point is to get through the Ibuki Douji setup they had with Shuten Douji for a long ass time and she only really does anything because it amuses her. It's just really funny that Heian-Kyo Ibuki Douji and Chaldeas Ibuki Douji are so radically different, it really does become hilarious.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Because in the Nasuverse sense, Ibuki Douji IS the Avatar of Yamato No Orochi, even if only a fragment of the real thing.
And while yes, I can see them repeating it too much, It kinda makes sense considering how bullshit Orochi really is in Japanese Mythology(Seriously, if Susann'O, the guy who is literally the equivalent to Poseidon, has to make you drink Sake and get your ass drunk to kill you...)

But yes, her entire point is to get through the Ibuki Douji setup they had with Shuten Douji for a long ass time and she only really does anything because it amuses her. It's just really funny that Heian-Kyo Ibuki Douji and Chaldeas Ibuki Douji are so radically different, it really does become hilarious.

That shouldn't be enough to make her equivalent to the actual Machine Gods while being a Divine Spirit, though. Even if we assume that its only referring to Artemis or Posiedon or the other non-Zeus gods, that would still imply Orochi itself is on the level of Zeus. And we know that's not possible because Sefar lost to Zeus but killed Amaterasu and her pantheon so badly it traumatized Tama by proxy.

Orochi itself being on par with a Machine God would make sense, we already know that Amaterasu was above them individually. But Sefar represents a hard limit on how strong they theoretically could have been and Zeus beat Sefar.

Though maybe I'm just fixating on that part too much, idk. It just feels like it cheapens LB 5 by doing this somewhat.

 

[Qinglong]

Do remember the Zeus that beat Sefar forcibly combined with the others to make super machine god robo, regular zeus did get stomped

but I do agree Ibuki has been badly misused in story and comes off as dull because of it

 

[Type-Rey]

Sefar only lost to Zeus in the LB version of events.
PHH Zeus still got fucked by her no problem.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

That shouldn't be enough to make her equivalent to the actual Machine Gods while being a Divine Spirit, though. Even if we assume that its only referring to Artemis or Posiedon or the other non-Zeus gods, that would still imply Orochi itself is on the level of Zeus. And we know that's not possible because Sefar lost to Zeus but killed Amaterasu and her pantheon so badly it traumatized Tama by proxy.

Orochi itself being on par with a Machine God would make sense, we already know that Amaterasu was above them individually. But Sefar represents a hard limit on how strong they theoretically could have been and Zeus beat Sefar.

Though maybe I'm just fixating on that part too much, idk. It just feels like it cheapens LB 5 by doing this somewhat.

1. As you mentioned yourself, Machine Gods =/= Lostbelt Zeus. Remember, Machine Gods are the original forms of the Olympian Gods and even their Lostbelt selves outside of Zeus aren't some super ultra versions of their Divine Spirit selves, just that they don't need worship to exist. That's why the paramount difference between God Arjuna and Lostbelt Zeus WASN'T powerscale.

2. Remember that even Proper Human History wise, Zeus is still a Supreme God and a Chief Deity even without his Lostbelt buffs(That just puts him on the scope of the Abrahamic God) and his Machine self isn't much different also PHH wise. You are overthinking why they used the comparison to the Machine Gods and went to Lostbelt Zeus explicitly rather than the Machine Gods of PHH.

3. Remember Zeus only defeated Sefar due to a COMBINATION Mecha from the other Olympians, as everyone else stated, he got destroyed otherwise.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Hell, remember, it was ARES who was Sefar's biggest fight, not Zeus in PHH... and I'm certain Ares still got bodied in the end.

 

[Type-Rey]

IIrc, she got compared to a LB King as well in NA, don't remember about the JP translation.

For someone who was around for a like half a section, she sure is hyped as fuck.

She's got one hell of a reyatsu crush move at least

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I think she was compared to a Lostbelt King in the JP Translation as well. The hype, as I said before, feels more like hyping the shit out of the being that even the Gods didn't fight head up. And to be fair, It is supposed to be the father of Shuten Douji, one of the 3 Great Calamities of Japan so...

Still proud to be an owner of her at NP2...

 

[Type-Rey]

I'm not saying her hype ain't justified even if there would be a case to be made for that seeing as for all intents and purposes she's a bunrei of YNO and a split one at that (Tamamo , everyone ?)

I'm saying that she doesn't do anything with it except reyatsu crush the main party.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Do remember the Zeus that beat Sefar forcibly combined with the others to make super machine god robo, regular zeus did get stomped

but I do agree Ibuki has been badly misused in story and comes off as dull because of it

It was the LB Machine Gods she was being compared to, and since she's apparently just one of its heads Orochi would logically be capable of a similar combined power boost. Or at least thats what it sounded like to me.

Ibuki wasn't ever compared directly to Zeus besides the grav trick, but if Orochi's Divided Spirit (I assume that means bunrei?) is that strong Orochi would be far stronger, and there's a ceiling there we know nothing in Japan cleared.

Though I guess there were more than eight Olympians so maybe that made the difference

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I'm not saying her hype ain't justified even if there would be a case to be made for that seeing as for all intents and purposes she's a bunrei of YNO and a split one at that (Tamamo , everyone ?)

I'm saying that she doesn't do anything with it except reyatsu crush the main party.

Oh no, I agree with you on that. For all of her hype, she didn't do shit except that and get eaten by Douman who can't see outside of wanting his runback on Seimei that hard.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

It was the LB Machine Gods she was being compared to, and since she's apparently just one of its heads Orochi would logically be capable of a similar combined power boost. Or at least thats what it sounded like to me.

You are overthinking it again...
Nothing ever stated she was compared to the Combo Mecha the Olympians did, she was just compared to the Machine Gods.

Ibuki wasn't ever compared directly to Zeus besides the grav trick, but if Orochi's Divided Spirit (I assume that means bunrei?) is that strong Orochi would be far stronger, and there's a ceiling there we know nothing in Japan cleared.

Japan being far stronger from the basis of a Japanese Creator? Who would have thought? But seriously, I don't see that as a problem to be frank considering again, Orochi was seen as a such a huge deal, Susann'O had to gank his ass and while he's no Amaterasu, he's basically Poseidon to her Zeus.
I would legit find it weird if Orochi is played like a bitch considering Japanese Mythology plays it off as a huge threat that just appeared and is the father of one of it's 3 Calamities.

Though I guess there were more than eight Olympians so maybe that made the difference

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

You are overthinking it again...
Nothing ever stated she was compared to the Combo Mecha the Olympians did, she was just compared to the Machine Gods.

Xhom

My dude

I literally just said that

My objection was that by comparing Ibuki to a Machine God, it implies that Orochi, who is presumably at least eight times stronger since Ibuki is just one of its heads, would approach combo Zeus in power since he's the 13 Olympians combined.

Japan being far stronger from the basis of a Japanese Creator? Who would have thought? But seriously, I don't see that as a problem to be frank considering again, Orochi was seen as a such a huge deal, Susann'O had to gank his ass and while he's no Amaterasu, he's basically Poseidon to her Zeus.

Which is why I said Orochi being on their level would make sense, because we already know Ammy is substantially above them on an individual level.

Him potentially being close to Combo Zeus was the only thing I thought was weird.

I would legit find it weird if Orochi is played like a bitch considering Japanese Mythology plays it off as a huge threat that just appeared and is the father of one of it's 3 Calamities.

Sure, but they also could have just....Given us Orochi and then played it up by comparison to, say, Tiamat

Again my only issue is what Ibuki being its bunrei (or Divided Spirit in case that's a different thing) implies about its strength.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

I do kind of wonder why Tama didn't do anything since this was supposed to be her living self. She should have had enough power to at least make a dent in the Tree, no?

 

[Type-Rey]

If Ivan can get a direct comparison to LB Zeus, a divided bunrei that's apparently on par with him x 8 should have no problem with getting one with either PHH or LB Zeus.

It makes sense in the internal logic of the setting but for the purposes of this hobby , i agree it's a little far fetched.

 

[Type-Rey]

Luckily, such a comparsion wasn't made so...moot.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

If Ivan can get a direct comparison to LB Zeus, a divided bunrei that's apparently on par with him x 8 should have no problem with getting one with either PHH or LB Zeus.

It makes sense in the internal logic of the setting but for the purposes of this hobby , i agree it's a little far fetched.

You know, I completely forgot about that. That kinda....completely fucks the power scaling, doesn't it

 

[Type-Rey]

It does unless you make the argument that they're in the same general tier, a tier that is gigantic and very diverse in terms of showings.

But then, you'd probably have to shove all of the Part 2 and some of the Part 1 baddies in it, regardless of the clear differences between them.